Casting while Polymorphed


Rules Questions


I recently came across some items that seem like they can aid your casting while you are in another shape:
Ring of Eloquence

RoE:
Fine etchings spell out the alphabets of four languages around the inside of this finely crafted silver band. The wearer gains the ability to speak and understand the four languages whose alphabets are inscribed on the ring. Normally the languages are Common, Dwarven, Elven, and Gnome. Less often, such rings are attuned to Giant, Goblin, Orc, and Undercommon, and rings with different sets of languages might also exist. The wearer retains the ability to speak in these languages even if she assumes a form normally unable to do so (such as a druid wild shaped into a wolf).

The ring also makes it easier for the wearer to find the correct words to express herself, granting a +2 competence bonus on Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Perform (oratory) checks. Also, if the wearer is deafened and attempts to cast a spell with a verbal component, the chance of spell failure is reduced to 10%.


Wizard Hook
WH:
A wizard hook is a +1 hook hand and a useful item for any arcane spellcaster.

Although a wizard hook does not allow for fine manipulation, it is infused with magic that bolsters somatic components—you can use a hand stump outfitted with a wizard hook to fulfill any somatic components for casting arcane spells. A wizard hook also grants proficiency in its use as a weapon. You can make touch attacks with spells using a wizard hook, either by making a normal attack with the hook (in which case it deals normal hook hand damage plus the spell effect), or by making a touch attack with the hook (in which case you gain a +4 bonus on the attack roll and the save DC of the spell increases by +1, but you do not do hook hand damage).

Polymorphic Pouch

PP:
This leather pouch is usually decorated with a druidic motif.

Within is an extradimensional space that can hold 4 cubic feet or 40 pounds worth of items and otherwise functions as a small bag of holding. If the bearer uses a polymorph effect or wild shape to transform into an animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin, the pouch never merges with her body. It automatically relocates to an easily-accessible place on her body (such as on a belt or a cord around her neck), allowing her to access the pouch and items within it while she is transformed.

Magic

Transmutation:
When you cast a polymorph spell that changes you into a creature of the animal, dragon, elemental, magical beast, plant, or vermin type, all of your gear melds into your body. Items that provide constant bonuses and do not need to be activated continue to function while melded in this way (with the exception of armor and shield bonuses, which cease to function). Items that require activation cannot be used while you maintain that form. While in such a form, you cannot cast any spells that require material components (unless you have the Eschew Materials or Natural Spell feat), and can only cast spells with somatic or verbal components if the form you choose has the capability to make such movements or speak, such as a dragon. Other polymorph spells might be subject to this restriction as well, if they change you into a form that is unlike your original form (subject to GM discretion). If your new form does not cause your equipment to meld into your form, the equipment resizes to match your new size.

So, at first glance, it seems you can cover V, S, and M/F/DF with these items above.

Q: How RAW/RAI legal is this, and are there ways to make it better?

/cevah


I would think you would potentially run into a rules issue in using the wizard hook. The others work fine.


What is the rules issue? It is a continuously active item, and not armor/shield, so polymorphing does not turn off it's magic. It's magic lets you cover "S" with a simple hook. While the hand becomes a claw or whatever, that magic is still going.

Can you come up with another way to ensure "S" can be covered?

/cevah

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

You can't activate the Wizard Hook when polymorphed because it is no longer on your hand.


You did read the description? There is nothing to "activate". That is why I said it was a continuously active item.

/cevah


I'm not a hundred percent on it, but "you can use a hand stump outfitted with a wizard hook to fulfill any somatic components for casting arcane spells" is what seems telling of a potential issue. Because it would seem necessary to actually be using the wizard hook to make the somatic components.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Cevah wrote:
You did read the description? There is nothing to "activate". That is why I said it was a continuously active item

I did, I just don't agree that it isn't use activated.


Cevah wrote:
You did read the description? There is nothing to "activate".

Certainly there is. "You can use a hand stump outfitted with a wizard hook...."

If you're polymorphed into a snake, you don't have a hand stump, and even if you are polymorphed into a bear, you don't have the wizard hook to outfit your hand (paw?) stump.

It looks like a classic use-activated item to me, which means it doesn't work in polymorphed form. Compare, if you like, to the wording of the (mundane) astrolabe: "When using an astrolabe, you can make a Survival check using your Intelligence modifier instead of your Wisdom modifier to avoid becoming lost." Your reading of the wizard hook would suggest that you get the benefit of an astrolabe while wildshaped as well.


You could just play a Rebirth Psychic, picking up polymorph spells a little late and eventually casting Polymorph from your phrenic pool. Any races with polymorph options can go with any psychic class.


OK. I always thought polymorph took away command activated magic. I had not thought of it also taking away use activated.

Hmmmm.....

That takes out the Wizard Hook. What can I use instead?

/cevah


Psychic bloodline Sorcerer or Blood Arcanist works too.

Still Spell.

Mythic Beast Shape.

... That's about it. If you do a search for somatic under spells and magic items, not much comes up.


The Shift Caster Arcanist exploit works too, though it's expensive.


QuidEst wrote:

Psychic bloodline Sorcerer or Blood Arcanist works too.

Still Spell.

Mythic Beast Shape.

... That's about it. If you do a search for somatic under spells and magic items, not much comes up.

Natural Spell Feat.

Grand Lodge

Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber; Pathfinder Maps Subscriber

Natural Spell only works for Druids in Wild Shape.

Psychic spells work well for Polymorphing casters.

Some forms don't require you to do anything else. Undead Anatomy, Monstrous Physique, Giant Form and Form of the Dragon all would allow you to cast as normal since these give you a Humanoid or Monstrous Humanoid form or a form like Dragon that can cast spells. In the case of all but Dragons, you gear stays with you so you can still use your Spell Component Pouch.

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