Hello all!
Basically to TL:DR this thread, I am new to pathfinder/roleplay games as is my party of 5 others and a veteran GM.
I worry that we suck too hard to be fun for the GM as he has rezzed us using GM fiats with a deity twist more than 5 times now. (Not to mention pulling the creatures punches.
I am asking for tactics that would assist the following classes so I can better advise and lead combat alongside my team.
Aasimar GRAPPLE MONK - Lots of OOT, AC and Grapple feats
Changeling ORACE - Recently lost her Apocalypse for Densa (REZ PRICE)
Earth Dijinn RANGER - Melee with a scary 25% to crit.
-Any synergy/tactics/positioning to assist in teamwork.
-Ways to help Identify threat levels and who would be best to tackle which threat.
-General advice on combat tactics, nothing is too basic
Before I get any comments on it, I learn better from dialogue with others than reams and reams of rules and definitions.
If you need more information feel free to ask! Ill answer as best as I can
First challenge is that 3 characters are obviously going to have a tougher time than 4, which is the standard.
Basically to achieve the best results, you want some characters to focus on dealing damage, some to focus on enhancing the other characters ability to deal damage, and some on preventing the foes from dealing damage.
With only 3 people, you obviously will have difficulty with that, as there is only one of you for each particular thing (a typical party would have 2 damage dealers, magnifying the effect of support type spells and more quickly ending combats.)
A grapple monk is typically best thought of as a prevention, or control character. While they deal damage, more than that they stop an enemy from effectively doing anything for several rounds (until they are killed usually.) This is effective, but unlike magic based controllers it isn't very flexible. You can only target one opponent, and if something prevents you from targeting the main threat you don't have a lot of other options. This character will be most effective if it targets the most significant threat. Since grapple only takes down one opponent, and usually requires several rounds to neutralize that opponent completely, if he grapples someone who is weaker than himself, it is a net loss to the party (since while grappling the grappler is out of the rest of the combat as well.) Making sure he goes after the right target, and is able to get to the target is key.
An Oracle can fulfill any role in the group, but can usually only do one at a time. I would recommend the oracle try to take the support role, with a backup of control (probably via summon monster) when large numbers of foes are encountered. After a round or two of spells, if the oracle is designed to be able to fight they should wade in to combat unless more spells are needed.
Your Ranger sounds like a straight forward damage dealer. Problems are going to be getting full attacks. In this particular group I would prefer to have an archer ranger to a melee ranger to help with that (a ranger animal companion automatically gives an archer full attacks and mobility, which is pretty huge.) As it is though, magic (items and spells) that can give the ranger mobility advantages to get full attacks (such as the quick runners shirt) will be a huge advantage. Other than that he should just be focusing on taking down opponents as quickly as possible.
@Dave, they have 6 or 7 people (minus the DM) the OP states as much.
They are asking for tactics to help with those 3 specific classes.
You mentioned a party of 5 other people but only listed 3 characters. Which character are you?
Missed that there were other characters in the group.
Tactics are primarily a group, not an individual thing, so to advise on the best tactics for any one character, you have to know that tactics and capabilities of the others.
@Dave Justus
Taken on board tactic approaches, say for instance recently we came across around 6 human? foes with H.Crossbows the "boss" figure didn't appear till a few rounds in.
At that time I personally was grappling a single foe while everyone else was trying to take out others individually to prevent them from all focusing on one character.
Was this the right decision? In hindsight no it wasn't but at the time it seemed quite reasonable.
@Athaleon
In answer to who I am I am the Aasimar Grapple monk. I have a good grasp of what im good at just not good at identifying what is a good or bad idea to grapple (IE. my 2nd death was grappling Lamashtu's champion I don't know WHY my Grapples of 29+ failed but I know they did for a reason)
@Skylancer
Yes you are indeed correct! Its nice to know some people read it all xD
One way to get some decent results might be to start doing the Knowledge skill rolls. Make the GM tell you what you're fighting -- you might find out just why that critter's not as grabable as you were hoping for. My group's found this the hard way, and while we haven't had any deaths yet, I've been putting some skill points into Knowledge Nature and Planes. (On a Barbarian. Yes.)
One question is what your grappling monk is doing when he grabs someone. And if the rest of your party is joining in on things while he's pinning down wild boars or goblins or whatever. Grappling can be a good way to go ... as long as it's doing something. We might need to see a little more of how he's built, too.
You also may want to check with what the rest of the party is doing, or thinks should be done. If your companions are literally tripping over each other trying to charge to the front of the fight, you may want to get with them and talk about it. A basic formation is 'squishies hide behind meatshield', for one ...
Additional information
-The character feats beyond the monk are unknown to me. They are however being advised by the GM who offers advice on level ups and basic things we should think about. This request isn't about the levels however.
-We are currently all level 7
-Party death toll so far is 5!
The advice that will help me the most is BASIC TACTICS WHEN FIGHTING AND ADVICE OF POSITIONING AND THE PRIORITISATION OF TARGETS (How to Identify)
@Qaianna
Elaborating on my Monk
Aasimar MONK LEVEL 7
STR:13 DEX:23 CON:14 INT:10 WIS:16 CHA:8
AC:26 (+4vs AttacksOfOppertunity +4withDefensivespin) Touch:21 Flat:16
CMB 14(+4 when Grappling) CMD 28 (+2vs Grap)
I always use Kraken Style because of grapple bonuses
In answer to who I am I am the Aasimar Grapple monk. I have a good grasp of what im good at just not good at identifying what is a good or bad idea to grapple (IE. my 2nd death was grappling Lamashtu's champion I don't know WHY my Grapples of 29+ failed but I know they did for a reason)
Without knowing (or spoiling for myself) who Lamashtu's Champion is, all I'll say is combat maneuvers are very hard to pull off against most enemies, because CMD = 10 + STR + DEX + "any circumstance, deflection, dodge, insight, luck, morale, profane, and sacred bonuses to AC". That's on top of miscellaneous effects that make it more difficult (such as the Grease spell making it harder to grapple).
If you have time, than I recommend Tark the Orc's blog, especially his guides:
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Some basic tactics:
Focus fire: Taking down one enemy completely reduces damage taken by the party. Hurting 6 enemies without taking any of them down, means they still all get to attack.
Get the buffs up quickly, make sure your teammates know when a group buff is incoming. Haste, for instance, is good, but make sure, if you can't get the whole party, that you get the ones who can best use it.
OK, just a note about Rise of the Runelords (RotR). The boss fights are TOUGH. For a GM to make an encounter a threat to the whole group, it means a fairly high level of lethality. 5 deaths over 7 seven levels is not that bad. If you are level seven, you might have more before you finish your current quest.
Without giving too much away... you have several levels of opponents who are especially difficult to wrestle with coming up... In fact, there are many "walls of flesh" you will have to fight that are dangerous to be around. Your group is going to have to come up with some tactics to deal with heavy hitters, who can take a beating themselves.
Natural 1s pointed you to some of the best tactics guides for pathfinder. Tark's advice if very good, and will help you gain a better understanding of the game mechanics. While this is a good thing, I encourage you to use this information to increase the enjoyment of the game, not attempt to exploit the system. Many people find that heavy optimization results in Rocket Propelled Grenade Tag - or first guy to win initiative and use his best power wins. Do what you need to fight those big enemies later, but remember that the goal is to have fun, not win. Oh, and no matter what you do, there are a few encounters in Runelords that will kill a character or seven...
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Earth Dijinn RANGER - Melee with a scary 25% to crit.
I have a feeling this is the problem. He is doing normal damage for the level. Every one else is far behind. Making encounters hard due to the inability for the group to deal enough damage.
Example: My one of my level 6 PFSP characters. He is a good damage dealer but not the best. You will need two characters that can do this kind of damage. If you can't deal enough damage you will party wipe at some point in RotRL.
Cavalier (Huntmaster) 6
AC 18
HP 64
Total Skill ranks 30
Halberd +1 Power Attack
To Hit +10/5 Damage 1D10+14 Crit 20/X3
Dog Animal Companion
AC 23
HP 51
Bite Power Attack
To Hit +6 Damage 1D6+12 Crit 20/X2
Huh. Looking at how others are built makes me wonder if my poor barbarian is underpowered. At the end of the first chapter ...
Level 4
AC 19
Melee: +9 Greataxe (d12+6) or +7 Greataxe (d12+12)
Raging melee: +11 Greataxe (d12+8) or +9 Greataxe (d12+14) on power attack, plus +5 Bite (d4+4) or +0 Bite (d4+6) on power attack.
Ranged: +7 Comp. Longbow Str+4 (d8+4) ... or just throw chakrams around.
44hp (yay)
Both weapons are just masterwork, not magic ... yet.
Actually, just for the sake of mentioning it ... you do have ranged attacks, right?
Granted that I AM taking all advice on board.
I am seeing a lot of character builds, our builds are now set in stone we cant respec (Or else Ill become Desna's faeces towel for eternity) tactics and ways of synergism would best help me.
@Natural 1's
Your advice and link is really helpful breaking down combat and the advice given is helping this is now my current approach to combat.
-Identify targets
-Assess strengths/weaknesses of targets
-Assign players to combat
-Repeat/reassess in light of success or lack thereof
-IN CASE OF CHANGE OF CIRCUMSTANCE - Repeat process from start.
Any and ALL further advice WILL be read and responded to!
@Qaianna
Yes, although the potential damage done (Collectively, excluding the Rangers) would make Calagnar either roar with laughter or cry in dismay.
Several people have asked you to state who else is in the party. It makes a big difference to the advice if you tell us.
Eg wizards or gunslingers. Or 2 rogues.
Details on the oracle will also help, such as which mystery and curse.
I also suggest you ask your GM to read through the advice threads in the Rise of the Runelords forum. There are a lot of places in that AP where kills are likely and others where bad dice rolls can make a huge difference regardless of tactics.