Is a Wall of Force an Object?

[Doommango]

So a recent question came up in a game of mine. Does a wall of force count as an object? This is particularly for the spell "Object Possession".

Thanks in Advance.

[Drahliana Moonrunner]

No, it's a spell effect.

[James Risner]

Drahliana Moonrunner wrote:

No, it's a spell effect.

+1

[Avoron]

Oh, it's not an object?

How do you calculate its AC?
Can you automatically hit it as a full round action?
Does it take half damage from energy attacks?
What about ranged weapons?
Is it affected by nonlethal damage?
What about critical hits?

We have answers to all of those questions in the core rulebook, but they only apply to objects. I guess we'll have to look somewhere else for this. Any suggestions?

[Doommango]

So is this the effect for all things produced by spells? I notice that all other things created by force specifically state they can not be harmed by physical attacks, thus why wall of force was called into question.

Do other things created by spells count as spell effects and are not subject to feats, spells, and abilities that effect objects?

[Kayerloth]

It's a weird area in the rules.

Many spell effects with the descriptor 'force' do in fact have listed hit points, AC or other 'stats' But which stats varies depending on the spell in question.

A Wall of Force has listed Hardness (30), hit points (20 per caster level) and may be damaged by weapons (not magical weapons, just weapons) as well as spells. But no AC is listed. There are rules for determining the AC of inanimate objects.

I'd have to go digging further but I'd say it (they) are objects but I'd also say they are in some subset which would make them immune to most non-damaging spells (edit: spells in general, damaging or otherwise) that aren't specifically mentioned in the spells description.

[Doomed Hero]

Pretty sure all physical walls are objects. How could they not be?

[In My Humble Opinion]

Let's not think too hard about this, guys. Just extrapolate a little. A wall is a wall, force or otherwise. Why wouldn't it be treated as an object except where the spell says differently?

[Paulicus]

Seems the question is "is force an object?" Which sounds either deeply philosophical or silly. :P

[James Risner]

Paulicus wrote:

Seems the question is "is force an object?" Which sounds either deeply philosophical or silly. :P

"Thats not how the force works!"

[DRD1812]

The bit that says "the wall cannot move" seems like a pretty good reason not to do this. That implies to me that this is a force field rather than a physical object, and would be like trying to possess someone's mage armor. These aren't objects in the normal sense, but magical forces that behave like objects in most, but not all, situations.

"Object" is one of those game words that doesn't seem to have a definition. The only RAW evidence I can point towards is the difference between the Conjuration and Evocation schools. The former mentions "object" all over the place, while Evocation only mentions vague ideas like "effects" and "desired effect."

[Paulicus]

There might be problems targeting an invisible object/effect (line of sight), and the size of the wall could easily be above the possession limits.

It'd be similar to asking about casting Animate Object on a wall of force, which probably wouldn't work either.

[Doki-Chan]

Minor Creation... this may have an implication that is suitable, specifically:

Quote:

Attempting to use any created object as a material component causes the spell to fail.

That last sentence... if the created Object doesn't count enough to be used in a spell component, then can a Force Item (or shadow item, as well), and by corollary, is it not real enough to possess?

However, like Web (Conj), a wall of force (Evoc) still counts under the "Objects or Areas" that can be made Permanent (see Permanency).

Would it be an object or an area though?