1) Can I use weapon finesse on improvised weapons
2) Which would be better for setting people and things on fire,
Alchemists fire or a torch
3) Would a flaming creature, lets say a goblin be considered an
improvised weapon if he can survive the fire.
1.) It depends on what you're using. For example, a torch is wielded in one hand, so I'd assume it's treated as a 1H bludgeoning weapon, which would qualify for weapon finesse. As opposed to wielding, say, the severed leg of a bronze dragon as a warhammer wouldn't, because it's being used as if it was a two-handed weapon.
2.) Alchemist's fire, hands down. Rules for the use of a torch as an improvise weapon actually exist (as read here), and there's no provision for setting things ablaze aside from that 1 fire damage. However, there's nothing stopping you from attempting to set on fire a flammable object or a person who is prone or helpless. Alchemist's fire oil actually states that the target catches fire on a direct hit (or else something wouldn't need to spend a full-round action trying to extinguish the flames).
3.) Honestly it would be easier to pick up a flaming corpse than a living being that's been set ablaze. I'd imagine they'd be flailing in pain, thereby making them incredibly difficult to hold. Even if you managed to use their burning body as a weapon, it'd likely deal damage as if it was a torch made for a size one to two steps larger than it is.
#1 It depends. Some improvised weapons can be used like a real weapon. For instance, Firebrand feat allows you to use a torch as light weapon. By default though, an improvised weapon doesn't count as light.
#2 Alchemists fire.
#3 Not usually, though they could be used as catapult ammo.
3) See the body bludgeon rage power.
"To determine the size category and appropriate damage for an improvised weapon, compare its relative size and damage potential to the weapon list to find a reasonable match".
Improvised weapons absolutely can be light, and therefore finesseable. They can also have special qualities (trip, reach etc).
Owner - D20 Hobbies
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Improvised weapons absolutely can be light, and therefore finesseable. They can also have special qualities (trip, reach etc).
That is the assertion that will generate 500 post threads of "yes they can" and "no they can't" comments.
Let's avoid that happening here by agreeing to disagree.
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Improvised weapons absolutely can be light, and therefore finesseable. They can also have special qualities (trip, reach etc).That is the assertion that will generate 500 post threads of "yes they can" and "no they can't" comments.
Let's avoid that happening here by agreeing to disagree.
Arrows: An arrow used as a melee weapon is treated as a light improvised weapon (–4 penalty on attack rolls) and deals damage as a dagger of its size (critical multiplier ×2). Arrows come in a leather quiver that holds 20 arrows.
You absolutely can have light improvised weapons. There is one defined in the CRB.
To clarify the flaming body. It is a goblin with fire resistance so he doesn't die from the flames. Running around on fire hugging people.
To clarify the flaming body. It is a goblin with fire resistance so he doesn't die from the flames. Running around on fire hugging people.
That's called a grapple.
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You absolutely can have light improvised weapons. There is one defined in the CRBCan you take Weapon Focus? Critical Focus? Or any other "weapon" boosting effect?
That's not relevant to whether or not the weapon can be used with weapon finesse. Weapon Finesse applies to all light weapons, and does not require you to specify a specific weapon. Improvised weapons are weapons, and they can be light.
To clarify the flaming body. It is a goblin with fire resistance so he doesn't die from the flames. Running around on fire hugging people.That's called a grapple.
Yes it would, but what about say throwing the goblin onto someone being a weapon, or just an odd grapple maneuver.
That's called a feat. Two actually. Well 6 or 7 before you're all said and done. If you take Spinning Throwyou can bull rush a target into another target.
OR you could take ten levels of barbarian, take body bludgeon and two handed thrower and you could do what you want.
Both are going to take a LOT of investment, really a lot more that is going to be worthwhile.
It really, really surprises me to say this, but I think you are wrong in this case James. I believe that improvised weapons absolutely can be light, and while there are a few examples (such as the arrows quote provided), mostly it is up to GM discretion to decide what category most improvised weapons fall into.
That's called a feat. Two actually. Well 6 or 7 before you're all said and done. If you take Spinning Throwyou can bull rush a target into another target.
OR you could take ten levels of barbarian, take body bludgeon and two handed thrower and you could do what you want.
Both are going to take a LOT of investment, really a lot more that is going to be worthwhile.
Someone else is throwing me. The feats I need do take a few levels but they are for giving me fire resistance enough to let me survive being on fire.
Someone else is throwing me. The feats I need do take a few levels but they are for giving me fire resistance enough to let me survive being on fire.That's called a feat. Two actually. Well 6 or 7 before you're all said and done. If you take Spinning Throwyou can bull rush a target into another target.
OR you could take ten levels of barbarian, take body bludgeon and two handed thrower and you could do what you want.
Both are going to take a LOT of investment, really a lot more that is going to be worthwhile.
You aren't getting the point. You're looking at about 10th level before your friend could try to throw you in any legal way. By that point, they have better things to do than 'wield' you in combat.
Secondly, the higher you get the less likely you'll see that fire damage being effective as fire resistance is super common. You could get some utility from "Running around on fire hugging people" but it's usefulness ends before you can find someone to toss you.
3) Would a flaming creature, lets say a goblin be considered an improvised weapon if he can survive the fire.
Ignoring the difficulty of using a creature as a weapon, being 'on fire' doesn't give you any ability at all to deal fire damage. By the rules, you can be on fire and be grappling someone and they won't take any fire damage at all.
At best, I could see giving a burning body (alive or not) the equivalent of being a torch, thus doing an extra 1 point of fire damage, but that would be a GM call, not strictly rules based.
Someone else is throwing me. The feats I need do take a few levels but they are for giving me fire resistance enough to let me survive being on fire.That's called a feat. Two actually. Well 6 or 7 before you're all said and done. If you take Spinning Throwyou can bull rush a target into another target.
OR you could take ten levels of barbarian, take body bludgeon and two handed thrower and you could do what you want.
Both are going to take a LOT of investment, really a lot more that is going to be worthwhile.
You aren't getting the point. You're looking at about 10th level before your friend could try to throw you in any legal way. By that point, they have better things to do than 'wield' you in combat.
Secondly, the higher you get the less likely you'll see that fire damage being effective as fire resistance is super common. You could get some utility from "Running around on fire hugging people" but it's usefulness ends before you can find someone to toss you.
Those feats are to throw enemies, not allies. Legally, all you need to do is tell the GM you're throwing you're flaming goblin buddy and ask what kind of roll he wants.
RPG, not videogame.
Those feats are to throw enemies, not allies. Legally, all you need to do is tell the GM you're throwing you're flaming goblin buddy and ask what kind of roll he wants.
RPG, not videogame.
Rules forum, not houserules.
Pathfinder is a permissive system, so you do indeed need rules that let you do things. GMs are of course free to alter that, and can make a much more free-form game if they like, but that is well completely separate from what the rules are.
Those feats are to throw enemies, not allies. Legally, all you need to do is tell the GM you're throwing you're flaming goblin buddy and ask what kind of roll he wants.
RPG, not videogame.
Rules forum, not houserules.
Pathfinder is a permissive system, so you do indeed need rules that let you do things. GMs are of course free to alter that, and can make a much more free-form game if they like, but that is well completely separate from what the rules are.
But he's right isn't he. The feats apply to enemies, you can throw a willing ally without them. I mean the feat is basically allowing you to grab the enemy who hates you, an ally would be fine and possibly not fight it.
But he's right isn't he. The feats apply to enemies, you can throw a willing ally without them. I mean the feat is basically allowing you to grab the enemy who hates you, an ally would be fine and possibly not fight it.Those feats are to throw enemies, not allies. Legally, all you need to do is tell the GM you're throwing you're flaming goblin buddy and ask what kind of roll he wants.
RPG, not videogame.
Rules forum, not houserules.
Pathfinder is a permissive system, so you do indeed need rules that let you do things. GMs are of course free to alter that, and can make a much more free-form game if they like, but that is well completely separate from what the rules are.
No, there is NO mechanic for doing what you want unless you use one of the feats. So he's wrong that it's legal. He's right that you could ask your Gm is you wished, but it's be 100% house-rule territory.
As to enemy, nothing stops you from attacking allies. The feat looks for an opponent of a pin attempt or maneuver, and that's 100% doable on an ally.
