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Hello all! Hope you're all having a good Christmas Eve - and probably Christmas itself by the time a lot of people read this. I've just recently introduced my brother and some of my friends to Pathfinder after playing it myself for around 6 months - I've been GMing a Serpent's Skull campaign for them. My brother has been really enjoying it, and wants to make a PFS character so he can play when I have left after these holidays. He's wanting to make a gunslinger - normally I'd have no issue making it, but Gunslingers are a little tricky, especially in society play.
The character he's envisioned is somewhat of an Old West cowboy type character - he's the quickest draw in the west! It can work pretty well , as far as I can tell. Pistolero archetype is an obvious one, which means he can't take Mysterious Stranger - the other archetype he was interested in. Start with the pistol for free, giving you a pitiful 1d8 damage. He wants it to be a human too, so can get two feats. Rapid Reload (pistol) is an obvious one, as you get the move action reload. As far as I can tell, the next choice is Point-Blank Shot? You'll always be within the required range for it when using your pistol, and then 3rd level go for precise shot to lose the -4 penalty for shooting into a melee. Paper cartridges can be used to make that a free action reload, which is lovely, but pricey.
It's 6gp for a paper cartridge if you have at least 1 rank in craft (alchemy). 1.1 gp (1gp, 1sp) for the normal bullet and black powder, but it's a move action to reload. The paper cartridge also makes it a 1-2 range for the jamming/explosion, compared to a 1 at base. What is advised here? These are very high costs for ammunition compared to what I know - arrows and the like. Is it worth spending 2PP getting a wand of abundant ammunition? It's usable by a fair few classes, so could hope that you can use it often, but then you'd be forcing them to use their first standard in most combats to use it for you. Getting to +19 UMD needed to use it would be nigh on impossible.
As for stat array, with just the normal human +2 we were thinking 10/18/12/12/16/7. Could switch STR and CHA, or also dump STR, but we liked the look of that array quite nicely. 12 CON is a little low compared to classes I've built before, but with a d10 hit die and staying at a range for the most part, it really should be fine. 18 dex allows quite a nice attack bonus, and when 5th level comes around it'll get quite nice damage. Anything you think we should change here?
If he's using a pistol, then he has a hand free? Is it possible to have a pistol in both hands? I don't see an easy way to do it. You need a hand free to reload, so you could use a buckler maybe? Trying to figure out a reason for using a pistol over something like a musket for the most part.
In general, what advice do you guys have for Gunslingers in PFS? Anything I've missed here? Useful tricks? It seems they're pretty bad up until 5th level, except for the touch-AC hitting, then dex to damage makes them crazy useful. Thanks for any advice guys! :)
First of all, welcome! Secondly, be prepared to use your melee weapon more than your gun for a bit. Eventually you will be rich enough, but in the beginning you will need to conserve ammo.
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What is advised here? These are very high costs for ammunition compared to what I know - arrows and the like.
A while back I did a cost breakdown HERE for firearm ammunition. I played a Gunslinger (Musket Master) to 12th level and never used Abundant Ammunition once. I just accepted that targeting Touch AC cost a little more.
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I have three characters with levels in gunslinger, and one more who had a level in gunslinger but trained out of it. It is one of my favorite character classes.
If your brother wants to be the fastest draw in the west, he should take Quick Draw!
Point-Blank Shot and Rapid Reload are also good, as you said.
Personally, I like mysterious stranger better than pistolero, but I think I'm in the minority here. Mysterious stranger is stronger at low levels, and pistolero is stronger at higher levels.
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Thanks for all the advice guys! :)
I knew about the range increment, but I figure if you're targeting touch AC that's worth the having to be within 20ft.
I saw that firearm ammunition breakdown before Nefreet - thank you very much for it. Very useful.
And yeah, quick draw is on the list. I think it'd be 5th level though, as 3rd level probably needs precise shot first.
Is a melee weapon really required that much? Won't be effective with it unless one MADs further into strength. At only 1.1gp for a normal shot, presuming you fire ~50 shots per mod (at low levels that's 50 rounds - a lot of rounds of combat for low level mods) then you're only paying 55gp. That's 1/10th of your total income, but should be doable? :)
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A small note about abundant ammunition: as of a fairly recent errata, I do not believe that it will work on paper cartridges as they are "alchemical cartridges."
In the Abundant Ammunition spell, in the
parenthetical in the first sentence, after “shuriken”
add “, but not special materials, alchemical attributes,
or nonmagical treatments on the ammunition”.
This errata made my Musket Master sad because his per-scenario cost suddenly went up (when he had to use is Adamantine bullets). Though past a certain level, the cost of ammunition become negligent, and usually one does not use more than 30 shots in a single scenario between 1-5, so your friend shouldn't be too put out by the cost.
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I just created the same type of character but with a slightly different twist.
Think John Wayne. Human Pally. 6'2". Rifle but his main way for combat is unstrapping his great-sword and beating people up. Think about it. In most Wayne movies he does a little gun play but more fisticuffs. So he has 1 level of gunslinger. Plate armor and he tends to boss people around but he is always looking out for the common folk. Buy the endless bandoleer. load up the pouches with weapons and fire and drop them/ I make sure that the rifle I carry is always loaded with a shot of adamantie. Got to make that first shot count.
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Hey, always good to see another firearm-aficionado. My first real PFS character is a Gunslinger, and he's still kicking fourteen levels and a promotion later. So, here's a few of the things I've learned about 'slinging
First, I would suggest upping your Con to at least 14, for a couple reasons.
1. You ain't no bow usin' pansy. You don't have the luxury of sitting fifty feet away from combat, sipping your tea and occasionally contributing to the mission when you feel like it. No, you're up on the front-lines, close enough to see the whites of your enemies' eyes.
2. You're the loudest and scariest mother-trucker on the battlefield. I mean, sure, an intelligent enemy might recognize the wizard as the ultimate threat, but, in the moment, you're the one they're going to be gunning for. Because you're extremely loud, incredibly close, and ripped through their precious armor like it was tissue paper. So, you better have the Con to survive getting beaten like a rented stepchild.
3. You're a fantastic tank. Stop laughing, I'm serious; it's stupid easy to pump your AC as a Gunslinger. First, you're a dex-based class; the thing which adds to-hit and damage also adds to AC, that's pretty neato. Second, you got Nimble, which gives you free AC just for existing. Third, since you're going against touch, by mid-ish levels, you can (and probably should) fight defensively 100% of the time, for a free bonus to AC.
4. You draw aggro just by existing. Now, this one obviously varies deepening on your GM, but a frontline DPS class, with no visible armor, who practically screams "pay attention to me" does a pretty good job of drawing enemy fire on their own. Combined with the... shall we say, "less than stellar" opinion, many people have of gunslingers, you've got a class that enemies are gonna be gunning for (pun intended).
Second, hold off on Rapid Reload until third level. Take Point Blank and Precise at first.
The reasoning for this one is pretty simple, no bullet points (heh) needed. Despite what it looks like, ammo isn't actually that expensive after your first session. When push comes to shove comes to ohgodkillitkillitkillit your party is gonna be far happier that you're not taking a -4 to hit.
Third:
Enter DiskElemental
DiskElemental. To multiclass or not to multiclass, that is the question: Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The strings and arrows of outrageous martial/caster disparity
Or to take arms against unbalanced game design,
And by opposing it, not actually end it because nothing can barring a complete overhaul of the basic mechanics, but at least make it a little better. To become a caster- to multiclass-
No more; and by a multiclass to say we end
The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
That a martial is heir to. 'Tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wish'd. To become a caster- to multiclass.
To multiclass- perchance to be useful outside of combat: ay, there's the rub!
For in mutlticlassing to a caster what opportunities may come
When we have shuffled off this martial coil.
Must give us pause. There's the respect
That makes calamity of so long a martial life
For who would bear the whips and scorns of leveling--
Ahem. Sorry. Alright, well, as was said above, the choice to multiclass kinda boils down to one thing. Do you want to be useful outside of combat? Heck, even if you want to be more useful in-combat, you're probably better off multiclassing. Due to the recent Gunslinger nerfs, and changes to Up-close and Deadly, there's very little reason for you to stick with the class after fifth level.
Of your options for multiclassing here (imo) are the best.
1. Inquisitor. This one is a borderline no-brainer. They're both Wisdom based class, which means you're not going to be MAD. They're also both combat focused, with the Gunslinger levels pulling you through the Inquisitor's weak early-game, plus, by the time you get to tenth level, you'll get access to Bane, which is excellent for a flurry of shots style character like the gunslinger. Inquisitor is fantastic if you want to focus purely on damage (with a few self-buffs and utility spells). Oh, and Target of Opportunity + Solo Tactics is hilarious.
2. Investigator. This was actually my pick, (my seeker is Pistolero 5 / Investigator 9), but it's without a doubt less power in-combat than the Inquisitor. Investigator needs a decent Int to really be viable, so you are gonna be kind MAD (I'd suggest Int of 14 to start, then grab a headband once you start multiclassing). The Investigator is a great pick if you want to provide more support-utility and tank stuff. You get all knowledges, can get UMD off Int, and get trapfinding. Grab Mutagen ASAP, use shield extracts to boost your AC. One downside though, is that you need Ranged Study to be able to use Studied Combat with your gun, which sucks for an already feat-starved build.
3. Other Martial. I kinda lumped all of these together, since they're not super differentiated. Urban Barbarian gives you an HP/damage boost. If you have the Cha for it, Paladin gives great saves, smite, and LoH. Ranger gives you Favored Enemy and some casting. Brawler gives you Martial Flex, which can turn you into a halfway decent switch-hitter. Kinetecist with a Conductive weapon lets you channel your blasts through your bullet. Slayer gives you study and a little bit of SA, also the potential to get trapfinding.
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Decide early on if you want to go for the shield marshal of arkenstar prestige class. It takes 25 skill points to enter, but it is awesome. However, it is going to eat pretty much all your skill points. Admittedly the skills you have to buy for it are good skills for a pathfinder to have.
It stacks nicely with gunslinger, but *also* stacks with inquisitor if you want to go that route.
ETA: It also plays into the fastest gun thing, as at 2nd level, it get Danger Sense: Add 1/2 your level to your init mod, and always act in the surprise round. Between that and gunslinger initiative, you should just about always shoot first.