Firearm Ammunition

[Chris Ballard]

I heard gunslingers get a discount on purchasing ammunition (in PFS). I'm trying to find out where this is mentioned and how much the discount is. Any ideas where this would be, if this is true?

[Jeff Merola]

It's in Additional Resources under Ultimate Combat. Instead of Gunsmithing letting you craft ammo cheaper, it lets you buy the ammo for the price you'd normally craft it at.

[Chris Ballard]

Jeff Merola wrote:

It's in Additional Resources under Ultimate Combat. Instead of Gunsmithing letting you craft ammo cheaper, it lets you buy the ammo for the price you'd normally craft it at.

Thanks.

[Nefreet]

I did a PFS cost breakdown of ammunition a while back. Hope this helps:

Nefreet wrote:

Black Powder: 10gp (1gp for a Gunslinger)

Regular Bullet: 1gp (1sp for a...)
Alchemical Silver Bullet: 3gp (3sp for...)
Silver Bullet: 25gp (2gp, 5sp)
Cold Iron Bullet: 2gp (2sp)
Adamantine Bullet: 61gp (6gp, 1sp)
Elysian Bronze Bullet: 21gp (2gp, 1sp)
30 Mithral Bullets: 280gp (28gp)
10 Ghost Salted Bullets: 210gp (201gp)

Paper Cartridge: 12gp (6gp)
Alchemical Silver Paper Cartridge: 14gp (7gp)
Cold Iron Paper Cartridge: 24gp (12gp)
Adamantine Paper Cartridge: 72gp (36gp)
Elysian Bronze Paper Cartridge: 32gp (16gp)
Mithral Paper Cartridge: 262gp (131gp)
Dry Load Cartridge (any): +30gp

[Chris Ballard]

Yes that helps, thanks.

[CWheezy]

Remember you still need a point in craft alchemy.

Sometimes I roll 20+, and that pays for 3 bullets! Which is roughly half of a full attack! Its pretty nice.

My gunslinger constantly laments the price of death these days. Now that there are all these demons around, the cost has doubled! Just terrible.

[Warrick Blackstone]

Nefreet wrote:

I did a PFS cost breakdown of ammunition a while back. Hope this helps:

Nefreet wrote:

Black Powder: 10gp (1gp for a Gunslinger)

Regular Bullet: 1gp (1sp for a...)
Alchemical Silver Bullet: 3gp (3sp for...)
Silver Bullet: 25gp (2gp, 5sp)
Cold Iron Bullet: 2gp (2sp)
Adamantine Bullet: 61gp (6gp, 1sp)
Elysian Bronze Bullet: 21gp (2gp, 1sp)
30 Mithral Bullets: 280gp (28gp)
10 Ghost Salted Bullets: 210gp (201gp)

Paper Cartridge: 12gp (6gp)
Alchemical Silver Paper Cartridge: 14gp (7gp)
Cold Iron Paper Cartridge: 24gp (12gp)
Adamantine Paper Cartridge: 72gp (36gp)
Elysian Bronze Paper Cartridge: 32gp (16gp)
Mithral Paper Cartridge: 262gp (131gp)
Dry Load Cartridge (any): +30gp

I always thought it was only the bullet part of the paper cartridges which was doubled on crafting it Cold Iron, since it made more sense to me

[GreySector]

Jeff Merola wrote:

It's in Additional Resources under Ultimate Combat. Instead of Gunsmithing letting you craft ammo cheaper, it lets you buy the ammo for the price at which you'd normally craft it.

There, I fixed it for you. ;-)

[Silbeg]

Funny thing is that rumor has it (locally) that you cannot buy paper cartridges in anything but normal bullets. I have yet to find this reference.

Don't forget about the spell "Abundant Ammunition" - it is a great way to reuse the expensive cartridges you are using up. Consider an Oil of Abundant Ammunition for 50gp if you are going to have to use adamantine cartridges!

[CRobledo]

There is a bit of confusion on paper cartridges, most probably stemming from the weapon blanch discussion.

I am pretty sure the accepted notion is you CAN buy paper cartridges of special materials, but NOT use weapon blanches on paper cartridges.

[Nefreet]

Warrick Blackstone wrote:

I always thought it was only the bullet part of the paper cartridges which was doubled on crafting it Cold Iron, since it made more sense to me

You can't "piece together" a paper cartridge in PFS. You're not actually crafting them, you're buying them pre-crafted.

[Mystic Lemure]

Michael Eshleman wrote:

There, I fixed it for you. ;-)

The below would have been fine. The only problem was the hanging preposition.

Jeff Merola wrote:

It's in Additional Resources under Ultimate Combat. Instead of Gunsmithing letting you craft ammo cheaper, it lets you buy the ammo for the price you'd normally craft it.

[into the aether]

Nefreet wrote:

Black Powder: 10gp (1gp for a Gunslinger)

Regular Bullet: 1gp (1sp for a...)
Alchemical Silver Bullet: 3gp (3sp for...)
Silver Bullet: 25gp (2gp, 5sp)
Cold Iron Bullet: 2gp (2sp)
Adamantine Bullet: 61gp (6gp, 1sp)
Elysian Bronze Bullet: 21gp (2gp, 1sp)
30 Mithral Bullets: 280gp (28gp)
10 Ghost Salted Bullets: 210gp (201gp)
Paper Cartridge: 12gp (6gp)
Alchemical Silver Paper Cartridge: 14gp (7gp)
Cold Iron Paper Cartridge: 24gp (12gp)
Adamantine Paper Cartridge: 72gp (36gp)
Elysian Bronze Paper Cartridge: 32gp (16gp)
Mithral Paper Cartridge: 262gp (131gp)
Dry Load Cartridge (any): +30gp

I'd like to confirm that these are all purchasable in the quantities listed. I just read this in another thread:

Quote:

And, in case your Gunslinger doesn't have the ability to cast spells themselves, you can take care of things with a friendly spellcaster, and a couple of items:

Wand of Abundant Ammunition (2 PP per wand, 50 castings)
Cracked purple prism Ioun stone (2000 gp, acts as a spell storing item for a single level of spell)

Have a spellcaster with AA on their spell list use the wand between encounters to fill the Ioun stone, use the Ioun stone yourself to cast AA on your ammo supply.
Rinse and repeat.

I'd like to start making use of that technique.

[Nefreet]

This should be the most up-to-date list. I removed Dry Load cartridges because I previously thought you could purchase them individually, but I no longer believe this to be the case.

Name of Ammunition / Regular Cost / Gunsmithing Cost

Black Powder (dose) / 10gp / 1gp
Black Powder (keg) / 1000gp / 100gp

Regular Bullet / 1gp / 1sp
Cold Iron Bullet / 2gp / 2sp
Silver Bullet / 25gp / 2gp, 5sp
Pitted Bullet / 5gp / 5sp
Adamantine Bullet / 61gp / 6gp, 1sp
Elysian Bronze Bullet / 21gp / 2gp, 1sp
Alchemical Silver Bullet / 3gp / 3sp
30 Mithral Bullets / 280gp / 28gp
10 Ghost Salted Bullets / 210gp / 201gp

Regular Paper Cartridge / 12gp / 6gp
Cold Iron Paper Cartridge / 24gp / 12gp
Adamantine Paper Cartridge / 72gp / 36gp
Elysian Bronze Paper Cartridge / 32gp / 16gp
Alchemical Silver Cartridge / 14gp / 7gp
Mithral Paper Cartridge / 262gp / 131gp*
Dragon's Breath Cartridge / 40gp / 20gp
Entangling Shot Cartridge / 40gp / 20gp
Flare Shot Cartridge / 10gp / 5gp
Salt Shot Cartridge / 12gp / 6gp

HERE is a post by Mike Brock confirming how to price out special material ammunition.

Please note that you cannot apply weapon blanches to alchemical cartridges, only to bullets.

* mithral melee weapons with no listed weight are assumed to be 1/2 pound when calculating their cost, but no such rule technically exists for ammunition with no listed weight (such as cartridges). You may encounter table variation when purchasing Mithral cartridges, but considering their high price I doubt many people would buy them anyways.

[Dragnmoon]

Nefreet wrote:

I removed Dry Load cartridges because I previously thought you could purchase them individually, but I no longer believe this to be the case.

That is interesting, ultimate Combat has the individual bullet price while ultimate equipment does not.

Technically Ultimate Combat is the most recent printing since it had an errata after Ultimate Equipment came out and it did not remove that individual bullet price.

I would say you can buy individual dry load bullets since it is a legal option through UC.

[Kyrie Ebonblade]

Dragnmoon wrote:

Nefreet wrote:

I removed Dry Load cartridges because I previously thought you could purchase them individually, but I no longer believe this to be the case.

That is interesting, ultimate Combat has the individual bullet price while ultimate equipment does not.

Technically Ultimate Combat is the most recent printing since it had an errata after Ultimate Equipment came out and it did not remove that individual bullet price.

I would say you can buy individual dry load bullets since it is a legal option through UC.

Sadly, Dry Load is an Weapon Enchantment and I think you have to buy them in lots of 50.. With a +1 in the package.

[Nefreet]

^ this is what I came to believe as well.

And that also begs the question, "Does Gunsmithing lower the cost of masterwork ammunition?" The feat gives us no clarity.

If someone wants to buy a set of 50 Dry Load paper cartridges (or they need a price to go off of for their Custom Order boon), they'd either be:

300gp (masterwork) + 300gp (50pcs x 12gp x 1/2) + 2000gp (for +1) + 1500gp (Dry Load) = 4100gp

OR

3950gp, if you believe the masterwork cost is halved as well.

But that's really a question more for the Rules Forum.

[Dragnmoon]

Thomas Graham wrote:

Sadly, Dry Load is an Weapon Enchantment and I think you have to buy them in lots of 50.. With a +1 in the package.

The actual rule is you need to buy ammunition in full lots, Dry load gives you the option of a lot of 1, most other weapon enhancements don't but dry load does.

[Jeffrey Fox]

Dragnmoon wrote:

Thomas Graham wrote:

Sadly, Dry Load is an Weapon Enchantment and I think you have to buy them in lots of 50.. With a +1 in the package.

The actual rule is you need to buy ammunition in full lots, Dry load gives you the option of a lot of 1, most other weapon enhancements don't but dry load does.

Right but Dry Load is a ammunition enchantment and not a specific weapon.ammunition like slaying arrows or tracer bullets. So you still need to buy a lot of 50 because you still need to have the ammunition enchanted to +1 before you can add dry load.

[Dragnmoon]

Once again, normally yes that's is the rule but specifically dry load has an option that to allow single bullet purchase. The specific trumps the general as they usually say.

Did I quote that right?

[Nefreet]

Given that Ultimate Combat was riddled with typos and editing errors I'd go with the 1500gp price tag in Ultimate Equipment over the 30gp price tag for individual cartridges.

But, there are probably people who have used the 30gp price tag already (and I know one person in my area who did so using my guide), so the best thing to suggest would be that going forward, we utilize the cost for a lot of 50.

[Jeffrey Fox]

Dragnmoon wrote:

Once again, normally yes that's is the rule but specifically dry load has an option that to allow single bullet purchase. The specific trumps the general as they usually say.

Did I quote that right?

The specific rules for Organized Play are in the guide. That is the rule requiring magical ammunition to be bought in full lots. As dry load is not a specific magical item like tracer bullets, sleep arrow, slaying arrows it doesn't get to over ride that rule. Dry Load still needs to have +1 ammunition in order for it to be used.

The only thing the 30gp price for single piece would allow would be a person who already had bought magical ammunition could upgrade a single piece of ammo to dry load for 30gp.

[Dragnmoon]

The rule is that you need to buy in full lots then they give typical examples. Dry load is not typical.

[Dragnmoon]

Nefreet that is quite possible that it was placed in UC in error, but later errata did not remove it. But they could have still missed it.

[Dragnmoon]

Here is the rule from the guide

Quote:

you must buy ammunition in full lots (typically 10 or 20 for mundane ammunition and 50 for magical ammunition).

Typically the rule for ammunition per the core book is that ammunition is priced in full lots of 50 for enhancements, that is why they put that in the guide It is possible to price it out per 1 bullet but that is not listed as an item in the book so it is not allowed in PFS.

This was brought up a lot when bullets came out and people were wondering if they had to buy them in lots of 20 because the guide state that you need to buy ammunition in lots.

The powers that be stated since the book listed an option for buying single bullets you can buy them 1 at a time. This is no different for dry load.

[Jeffrey Fox]

Dragnmoon wrote:

The rule is that you need to buy in full lots then they give typical examples. Dry load is not typical.

It's also an enhancement and not an individual piece of ammo on it's own. You still need +1 ammunition for it to work as +1 ammunition is not included in it's cost.

The typical allowance in magical ammunition is for things like slaying arrows that are actual magical ammunition that are priced individually and for things like the Custom Order Boon. Not for people to be able to buy magical firearm ammunition individually by playing 30gp more each.

Dragnmoon wrote:

The powers that be stated since the book listed an option for buying single bullets you can buy them 1 at a time. This is no different for dry load.

The book does not list the cost for a single bullet of dry load, it list the cost to enhance a piece of ammo with the dry load special ability. That is why it's not covered by the allowance in the guide.

[Dragnmoon]

Damn it grrr!!!!

You are right you would need to first own +1 bullets, you got me there.those you need to buy in lots of 50.

But once you own one you can upgrade just 1.

Grr i was not thinking it all the way through.

[Dragnmoon]

So if you wanted say 10 dry load bullets you would need to first buy 50 +1 bullets then and of those 10 you can upgrade.

What you do not need to do is buy 50 +1 dry load bullets.

Though it is not really worth it in the end +1 ammunition is not very useful

Edit we'll that was a waste of an hour of my time ;)

[Jeffrey Fox]

Dragnmoon wrote:

So if you wanted say 10 dry load bullets you would need to first buy 50 +1 bullets then and of those 10 you can upgrade.

What you do not need to do is buy 50 +1 dry load bullets.

Though it is not really worth it in the end +1 ammunition is not very useful

Edit we'll that was a waste of an hour of my time ;)

Correct.

[Jayne Munny]

Dragnmoon wrote:

So if you wanted say 10 dry load bullets you would need to first buy 50 +1 bullets then and of those 10 you can upgrade.

What you do not need to do is buy 50 +1 dry load bullets.

Though it is not really worth it in the end +1 ammunition is not very useful

Edit we'll that was a waste of an hour of my time ;)

I can see one possible use for this, but it is a little convoluted, only only makes sense at relatively higher levels (when your income is higher).

So, let's assume your gunslinger has a backup weapon that is not magical (or maybe not even masterwork). With this, if needed, you might occasionally need magic to overcome DR. So, there is a use for magic bullets, at least infrequently. Then, you take 10-20 of them, and further enchant them (individually) to be dry load, for those rare times when you need to shoot under water.

Of course, a few oils of air bubble (or a wand if you can cast or UMB it) would be cheaper. I also personally think the 2000 for a dry load powder horn (or whatever it is called), is not worth it. But, there you go... A potential use.

[hotsauceman]

Nefreet wrote:

This should be the most up-to-date list. I removed Dry Load cartridges because I previously thought you could purchase them individually, but I no longer believe this to be the case.

Name of Ammunition / Regular Cost / Gunsmithing Cost

Black Powder (dose) / 10gp / 1gp
Black Powder (keg) / 1000gp / 100gp

Regular Bullet / 1gp / 1sp
Cold Iron Bullet / 2gp / 2sp
Silver Bullet / 25gp / 2gp, 5sp
Pitted Bullet / 5gp / 5sp
Adamantine Bullet / 61gp / 6gp, 1sp
Elysian Bronze Bullet / 21gp / 2gp, 1sp
Alchemical Silver Bullet / 3gp / 3sp
30 Mithral Bullets / 280gp / 28gp
10 Ghost Salted Bullets / 210gp / 201gp

Regular Paper Cartridge / 12gp / 6gp
Cold Iron Paper Cartridge / 24gp / 12gp
Adamantine Paper Cartridge / 72gp / 36gp
Elysian Bronze Paper Cartridge / 32gp / 16gp
Alchemical Silver Cartridge / 14gp / 7gp
Mithral Paper Cartridge / 262gp / 131gp*...

Thankyou for this, Im going to copy this and keep it with my Gunslinger Char sheet

[.Hate9]

I'm definitely necro-ing this, but someone really had to mention Viridium bullets, which are my favourite weird thing to shoot people with.

"Hah, you've only done 4 damage to me!"
"Yes, but now you have cancer."