If not any sword at least the jian, the chinese sword.
How can she use it as a monk weapon and be able to use her features, like flurry of blows with it?
The Sohei monk archetype gets the ability to use any weapon as a monk weapon. Look it up.
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There is no Jian. Though there is the Dao (9 ring broadsword) that's a Monk weapon.
The jian is the type of sword the younger girl uses in this fight: Shulien vs Jen (Forget the power of that sword, in the movie it is too powerful, artifact level in 2E terms).
The temple sword barely replace it. :(
And in case you are doubting they're monks, just see this other fight: Fight in Bamboo Forest (Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon).
If not any sword at least the jian, the chinese sword.
How can she use it as a monk weapon and be able to use her features, like flurry of blows with it?
flavor wise, using a sword is pretty dang cool.
If you would like to know what weapons can be used with flurry of blows, just search go to
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons
or
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/equipment---final/weapons/eastern-weapons
And CTRL+F "Monk"
As far as practicality, a monks fist attacks get stronger as he levels up. A weapon always deals constant damage.
So there are pros and cons to using a manufactured weapon vs Fists that you will have to consider.
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Not very many.
The larger damage dice are outweighed by weapons costing half the price while being twice as good, and 19-20/x2 or x3 crits being available.
The Temple Sword makes a good Jian reflavor. The Jian is just a Chinese long sword, and that's what the Temple Sword is meant to represent.
Ah, right, I forgot. Paizo is bound and determined to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to play an Unarmed Monk.
=(
Contributor
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Ah, right, I forgot. Paizo is bound and determined to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to play an Unarmed Monk.
=(
The bodywrap of occasionally punching people was the first big red flag for me. Subsequent events have not improved that perception.
I feel like they're afraid of being accused of power creep. That's why Umonk lost favored Will, it's why the bodywrap was so horrendous... I don't know all the rest. (I'm sure you do, though.)
The Temple Sword makes a good Jian reflavor. The Jian is just a Chinese long sword, and that's what the Temple Sword is meant to represent.
Not really, the jian it's more similar to the rapier than the longsword. It is light and not meant, in real life, to be used with strength but technique, this is why it is also called the tai ji sword. In fact it weights less than 2 lb. and will work as a finesse weapon.
This is why i think it is more suitable for monk usage.
Kalindlara is right in why a monk will use a manufactured weapon, but being it the tai ji sword it'll be nice, and expected, to find a way that the monk can use her ki with it.
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Ah, right, I forgot. Paizo is bound and determined to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to play an Unarmed Monk.
=(
The bodywrap of occasionally punching people was the first big red flag for me. Subsequent events have not improved that perception.
I feel like they're afraid of being accused of power creep. That's why Umonk lost favored Will, it's why the bodywrap was so horrendous... I don't know all the rest. (I'm sure you do, though.)
I do...
Ascetic Style is just the nail in the coffin though. Unarmed had a few minor things going for it, like larger damage dice (gone), Style Strikes could only be used with it (gone), Stunning Fist(gone...though to be fair Ki Focusing did away with it a long time ago), and so on.
But Ascetic Style just kinda destroys all that.
The Temple Sword makes a good Jian reflavor. The Jian is just a Chinese long sword, and that's what the Temple Sword is meant to represent.Not really, the jian it's more similar to the rapier than the longsword. It is light and not meant, in real life, to be used with strength but technique, this is why it is also called the tai ji sword. In fact it weights less than 2 lb. and will work as a finesse weapon.
This is why i think it is more suitable for monk usage.
Kalindlara is right in why a monk will use a manufactured weapon, but being it the tai ji sword it'll be nice, and expected, to find a way that the monk can use her ki with it.
I'm aware of what a Jian is, but we're trying to work within the ruleset, yes? The Temple Sword weighs 3 lbs. and can be Flurried with.
Given your Finesse mention, I'm assuming what you really want is a weapon that can be used for a Dex based character? If so, you should have said so from the start...it would have narrowed things down a bit. If not...why does it matter?
The Temple Sword is the closest you're going to get as a sword, unfortunately. But the Bich'Wa is a Light Monk weapon, and could potentially be reflavored. It's more of a knife than a sword, however. Ditto the Butterfly Sword.
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The Sohei monk archetype gets the ability to use any weapon as a monk weapon. Look it up.
Any weapon in which they have weapon training. They do not get weapon training in heavy or light blades.
If you want to use a rapier, reflavoring it as a jian, you can look into crusader's flurry. It will require a dip into one level of cleric, and worshiping a deity with the rapier as a favored weapon. However, the choices for deities with the rapier as a favored weapon that are within one step of a lawful algnment are quite slim.
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The jian would really be more like a shortsword, but would do both piercing and slashing. I've tended to equip NPCs with a longsword, but the jian really isn't used two-handed, and it makes sense for a jian, despite the length, to work like a light weapon.
The real life weapon called a "temple sword" is really more like a khopesh.
Ascetic Style is just the nail in the coffin though. Unarmed had a few minor things going for it, like larger damage dice (gone), Style Strikes could only be used with it (gone), Stunning Fist(gone...though to be fair Ki Focusing did away with it a long time ago), and so on.
But Ascetic Style just kinda destroys all that.
This may be a dumb question, and if so, I apologize, but is there something that grants the Monks unarmed damage increase to manufactured weapons now?
The jian would really be more like a shortsword, but would do both piercing and slashing.
That sounds like a Gladius.
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This may be a dumb question, and if so, I apologize, but is there something that grants the Monks unarmed damage increase to manufactured weapons now?Ascetic Style is just the nail in the coffin though. Unarmed had a few minor things going for it, like larger damage dice (gone), Style Strikes could only be used with it (gone), Stunning Fist(gone...though to be fair Ki Focusing did away with it a long time ago), and so on.
But Ascetic Style just kinda destroys all that.
Go here and click on the Ascetic Style feats.
Ah, right, I forgot. Paizo is bound and determined to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to play an Unarmed Monk.
=(
How about the fact that Ascetic Style takes out feats that you could spend on Dragon Style for a ton of bonuses and equivalent damage, plus the fact that unarmed strikes have several good things going for them - particularly the fact you can replace those attacks for grapples, trips, disarms, etc.
Don't overdramatize it is what I'm saying.
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Weapons already get 1.5 Str to danage, and 1.5 Power Atrack to boot, so that's a wash.
Trips and Disarms can be done with weapons as well, and often better due to having a higher Enhancement bonus at any given level. I'm uncertain why you think this us uniwue to unarmed attacks.
Grapple cannot replace an attack either way.
Weapons already get 1.5 Str to danage, and 1.5 Power Atrack to boot, so that's a wash.
Trips and Disarms can be done with weapons as well, and often better due to having a higher Enhancement bonus at any given level. I'm uncertain why you think this us uniwue to unarmed attacks.
Grapple cannot replace an attack either way.
But if you are going unarmed then grapples don't have a penalty to them. Maybe that's what he was thinking when he said grapple?
Maybe, but that's not really an unarmed build, rather a Grapple build.
And the Dan Bong still does it better.
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Ah, right, I forgot. Paizo is bound and determined to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to play an Unarmed Monk.
=(
The bodywrap of occasionally punching people was the first big red flag for me. Subsequent events have not improved that perception.
I feel like they're afraid of being accused of power creep. That's why Umonk lost favored Will, it's why the bodywrap was so horrendous... I don't know all the rest. (I'm sure you do, though.)
The bodywraps are actually pretty good for some abilities that you do not want or need to be 'always on'. Adding the speed property on one attack is enough to get you the extra attack, for example. Another example is the vicious property which being a two-edged sword is one that you WANT to be able to 'toggle' on and off.
Incidentally, I have two unarmed-combat characters, and I am planning to get +1 vicious speed bodywraps for both of them.
If it makes you feel any better, Pummeling Style is still 100% unarmed only. It has a specific stipulation that it can only be used with unarmed strikes, even if you have another ability that says otherwise.
If it makes you feel any better, Pummeling Style is still 100% unarmed only. It has a specific stipulation that it can only be used with unarmed strikes, even if you have another ability that says otherwise.
True, true. Pummeling is still rad.
It feels like I might be missing something because no one said it, but a magic weapon with a plus one bonus can be enchanted with Ki focus. This allows you to use flurry of blows and Ki strike on it. It's actually core rulebook.
Ki Focus just lets you use Stunning Fist and the like through it.
The Sohei monk archetype gets the ability to use any weapon as a monk weapon. Look it up.
False, a Sohei can only use bows, crossbows, monk weapons, polearms, spears, or thrown weapons. They may be able to add more depending on your GMs ruling with some levels of Fighter, but that is not certain.
There sadly is no Jian in Pathfinder, so reflavoring weapons is your best bet, the Temple Sword, Seven-Branched Sword or Nine-Ring Broadsword all work fine for this.
Alternately, you could reflavor the Blade of the Sword-Saint, or any sword that has a god with Crusader's Flurry after taking a level of Cleric.
Hope that helps.
If you go with Sohei, you can use the Urumi. It is a blade that is so thin and flexible it can be worn as a belt.
Or, for 2000g, you can get the Bladed Belt, and make it whatever you like.
Can't flurry with an urumi though unless you take the first 2 Ascetic Style feats.
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Ah, you did say Sohei. Missed that and was thinking a 'normal' monk. My mistake.
Well... with all that said i think i had to make a broader question "How can a monk get any weapon and convert it in a monk weapon so she can use it and still be a monk?".
But back to the topic. I understood that she must adapt a monk weapon into a sword and go with it, then add some feats, styles, to get the best of it.
Weapons already get 1.5 Str to danage, and 1.5 Power Atrack to boot, so that's a wash.
Trips and Disarms can be done with weapons as well, and often better due to having a higher Enhancement bonus at any given level. I'm uncertain why you think this us uniwue to unarmed attacks.
Grapple cannot replace an attack either way.
Man, my clumsy fingers on my phone really screwed this post up.
Man, my clumsy fingers on my phone really screwed this post up.Weapons already get 1.5 Str to danage, and 1.5 Power Atrack to boot, so that's a wash.
Trips and Disarms can be done with weapons as well, and often better due to having a higher Enhancement bonus at any given level. I'm uncertain why you think this us uniwue to unarmed attacks.
Grapple cannot replace an attack either way.
I'm having a sort of bad time trying to understand it, to be honest.
But just to add to it, i think another advantage of an armed monk is that we wouldn't dare to attack some creatures if unarmed. I think the jelly cube is a nightmare to a monk.
Conversely, a rust monster is a nightmare to an armed monk.
Anyway, unarmed builds with Dragon Style can deal 2x and 1.5x with FULL 1.5x Power Attack WHILE GRAPPLED.
Additionally, you are performing grapples with your UNARMED STRIKES, so all the enhancement bonus from your fists goes to the CMB.
You can wear a Dan Bong in the off-hand for the +2.
That being said, I think that what people don't get is that grappling is not an option or a different build, it's a built-in Monk advantage that you need to exploit.
Monks are caster killers. You teleport past their barriers, you avoid any weapon related spells, you have SR on demand, you have ridiculous mobility, you target fortitude saves, and, yes, you GRAPPLE.
Temple Sword Chuck will be unable to use 2H weapons with Power Attack if he grapples.
Unarmed Chuck will be able to deal 2x/1.5x unarmed strikes with FULL Power Attack while grappling and not break a sweat.
It's true you don't HAVE to do it.
But avoiding it is, in my opinion, missing out on one of the greatest comparative advantages of the Monk.
Not to mention you also get the cooler Elemental Fists if you go Dragon Style.
Also, do yourself a favor and pick up Blood Crow's Strike as a Qingqong Power for acidic monsters.
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Anyway, unarmed builds with Dragon Style can deal 2x and 1.5x with FULL 1.5x Power Attack WHILE GRAPPLED.
Dragon Style can allow you to gain 1.5 STR bonus with an unarmed attack. It cannot allow you to gain 1:3 Power Attack. Despite a monk unarmed strike being treated as a natural attack for the purpose of effects that enhance natural attacks, it is not a Primary Natural attack which is what is needed to gain the 1:3 ratio.
I've always played it that way, and I'd expect rules lawyering either way.
Anyway, unarmed builds with Dragon Style can deal 2x and 1.5x with FULL 1.5x Power Attack WHILE GRAPPLED.
This is incorrect, you'd have the 1 power attack. Dragon style doesn't increase power attack damage.
Additionally, you are performing grapples with your UNARMED STRIKES, so all the enhancement bonus from your fists goes to the CMB.
This is also incorrect, you aren't performing grapples with your unarmed strikes, grapples are grapples and need to be boosted on their own.
I've always played it that way, and I'd expect rules lawyering either way.
There a few threads where the "rules lawyering" was all that it didn't work.
Temple Sword Chuck will be unable to use 2H weapons with Power Attack if he grapples.
Unarmed Chuck will be able to deal 2x/1.5x unarmed strikes with FULL Power Attack while grappling and not break a sweat.
This is also incorrect, if you are grappling them then your options are to maintain grapple or release grapple and full attack them. So Unarmed is in the same boat as weapon.
Yeah, Chess is correct unfortunately. Most of my GMs allow 1.5x Power Attack, but the RAW does appear to be against it, as I've been convinced.
Likewise Grappling is NOT done using your unarmed strike like a Trip would be, so no Enhancement. Unless, of course, you use a Dan Bong.
That extra +8 Grapple would have helped my Tetori grapple Cthulhu, very sad it wasn't available.
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Ah, right, I forgot. Paizo is bound and determined to make sure there is ABSOLUTELY ZERO reason to play an Unarmed Monk.
=(
The bodywrap of occasionally punching people was the first big red flag for me. Subsequent events have not improved that perception.
I feel like they're afraid of being accused of power creep. That's why Umonk lost favored Will, it's why the bodywrap was so horrendous... I don't know all the rest. (I'm sure you do, though.)
The only edge I see for unarmed monks is a combo which they didn't really intend. Use an AoMF purely for extra boosts (Agile/Flaming etc.) and get an Allying weapon for straight enhancement. Depending upon your GM - you may need to burn an iterative on your largely useless Allying weapon to count as wielding it - though that matters relatively little at levels 8+.
Eventually getting up to +10 is actually a bit cheaper using this method (+5 Allying cestus & +5 AoMF) than for a normal +10 weapon.
Conversely, a rust monster is a nightmare to an armed monk.
Yes, it's truly awful attacking one with a staff or a Silversheen metal weapon. I mean, who could possibly afford that 750gp cost to make their weapon immune to rust... :P
But just to add to it, i think another advantage of an armed monk is that we wouldn't dare to attack some creatures if unarmed. I think the jelly cube is a nightmare to a monk.
Which is why my monk has carried alkali flasks since he could afford them. He also has a crossbow and two temple swords (one cold iron, one silvered), but he usually uses his fists.
Well... the rusting monster is a nightmare to all armed characters... not the monk only.
But the jelly cube:
- "OMG. I cannot touch that thing guys, i'll be crying in that corner while you kill that thing!"
- "Don't be silly, Wang. Be of use and use your speed to keep bringing us all those rusted weapons scattered through the floor."
- "Oh, i didn't think about it! And... if you fail?"
- "Well, Wang. The corner will still be waiting for you."
- "Why, why i used to skip the weapon lessons at the temple!"