Druid Wild Shape Question


Rules Questions


So two questions, Do I have the below stats correct for Wild Shape? And Can a druid Wild shape into a larger version of a creature he already knows?

Assumptions
Druid of 9th Level
BAB: +6
S:16
D:14
From Wildshape
Medium Animal: +2 Size bonus to STR and +2 Natural Armor
Large Animal: +4 STR, -2 Dex, +4 Natural Armor
Huge Animal: +6 STR, -4 Dex, +6 Natural Armor

Combat Forms:

Denonychus (Dino)
Medium animal
Senses low-light vision, scent
AC: 14, Touch 12, Flat 12 (+2 Dex, +2 Natural)
Speed 60 ft.
Melee 2 talons +10 (1d8+4), bite +10 (1d6+4), foreclaws +5 (1d4+2)
Special Attacks pounce
S: 18 D: 14 NA: +2

On a full round attack, the druid would get all the listed attacks under Melee.
Druid could use Pounce to charge and make full round of attacks.
Single attack would be with a single talon +10 (1d8+4).

Dire Lion (Great Cat)
Large animal
Senses low-light vision, scent
AC: 14, Touch 10, Flat 14, (+1 Dex, +4 Natural, -1 Size)
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +10 (1d8+5 plus grab), 2 claws +10 (1d6+5)
Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks pounce, rake (2 claws +10, 1d6+5)
Senses low-light vision, scent
S: 20 D: 12 NA: +4 (-1 Attack and -1 AC because of Size)

On a full round attack, the druid would get all the listed attacks under Melee.
Grab would allow for rake in following rounds
Druid could use Pounce to charge and make full round of attacks, including rake.
Single attack would be with a bite +10 (1d8+5 plus grab).

Allosaurus (Dino)
N Huge animal
Senses low-light vision, scent
AC 14, touch 8, flat-footed 14 (+0 Dex, +6 natural, –2 size)
Speed 50 ft.
Melee bite +10 (2d6+6 plus grab), 2 claws +10 (1d8+6) – The Druid would not gain Improved Crit (Bite), thus losing the /19-20 crit range on bite.
Space 15 ft.; Reach 15 ft.
Special Attacks pounce, rake (2 talons +10, 1d8+6)
S: 22 D: 10 NA: +6 (-2 Attack and -2 AC because of Size)

On a full round attack, the druid would get all the listed attacks under Melee.
Druid could use Pounce to charge and make full round of attacks, including rake.
Single attack would be with a bite +10 (2d6+6 plus grab).

Now if I have the above, could a druid use his wild shape to change into a huge Cat?

Dire, Dire Lion (Great Cat)
Huge animal
Senses low-light vision, scent
AC: 14, Touch 8, Flat 14, (+0 Dex, +6 Natural, -2 Size)
Speed 40 ft.
Melee bite +10 (2d6+6 plus grab), 2 claws +10 (1d8+6) Space 10 ft.; Reach 5 ft.
Special Attacks pounce, rake (2 claws +10, 1d8+6)
Senses low-light vision, scent
S: 22 D: 10 NA: +6 (-2 Attack and -2 AC because of Size)

--- Size increased for bite and claws (Using Strong jaw spell stats for increasing size damage)
On a full round attack, the druid would get all the listed attacks under Melee.
Grab would allow for rake in following rounds
Druid could use Pounce to charge and make full round of attacks, including rake.
Single attack would be with a bite.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Mrghee wrote:
Can a druid Wild shape into a larger version of a creature he already knows?

Only the Eagle Shaman due to an FAQ. You can not take forms with templates, and larger/smaller/younger/older are templates.


You can change into a warcat which is huge, but you can not change into any creature with a template.
In home games you can of course house rule otherwise. I think it is not unreasonable to let a druid change into a chimp for example, even though its stats are derived from slapping the young template on a gorilla.
It is a bit frustrating that some common animals are off-limits for wildshape because their stats are derived from other animals via templates.


I hadn't heard about that FAQ. Pretty silly that they restricted it to only eagle shamans so specifically, though, it still most of the rest of the shaman archetypes unusable.

Still, good to know.


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Mrghee wrote:
And Can a druid Wild shape into a larger version of a creature he already knows?

No, but yes.

Velociraptors are Small, and you can't turn into a Medium Velociraptor. But you can turn into a Denonychus. You can't turn into a Large Denonychus, but you can turn into a Megaraptor. You can't turn into an octopus that is medium or large, but you can turn into a Giant Octopus, which is Large.

See where I'm going with this?


WagnerSika wrote:
You can change into a warcat

Okay, I think I just fell in love.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
WagnerSika wrote:
You can change into a warcat
Okay, I think I just fell in love.

Seriously. 8th level 16 Strength (+2 belt, +6 Wildshape = 24) Druid with Pounce (Bite 2d6+7 2 Claws 1d8+7), Rend (Claws 1d8+10), Trample (2d8+7 DC 21), Grab, Climb 90 feet, Low-light vision, Scent.

Probably Darkvision too because why wouldn't you be a Dwarf?

Big boss? Charge Bite Grab Claw Claw Rend. Next turn, full attack in Grapple Rend. Repeat.

Minion in the way? Trample through. They either clear the charge lane for your party, or take shitty AoOs with -4 penalty against your ridiculous +6 Natural Armor.

The Exchange Owner - D20 Hobbies

Being a Wild Shaped Dwarf in Warcat form means you lose Darkvision for Low Light Vision of the Warcat.


Acceptable losses.

Even though Druids don't get Darkvision as a spell, for some reason.

Or Beast Shape, for that matter.

I guess I just have to live with being a 3/4ths BAB 9th-level spellcaster who can turn into a Warcat for hours per level. ;_;


sounds like you ought to just take blind fight :)
casting/breaking a pot of obscuring mist, or an ally caster a version of darkness. Of course a raging (enlarged?)barbarian providing you with rage. So everyone dies.


James Risner wrote:
Being a Wild Shaped Dwarf in Warcat form means you lose Darkvision for Low Light Vision of the Warcat.

Yeah, but they gain Scent.

Abrir wrote:
sounds like you ought to just take blind fight :)

The combination of Scent and Blind Fighting is devastating.

Abrir wrote:
casting/breaking a pot of obscuring mist,

Or better yet, an Eversmoking Bottle or cast Pyrotechnics. Darkvision works in the dark, but not when you are Blinded.


If you take (and you really should) the Planar Wildshape feat you get Darkvision for animals. You also get DR and some energy resistances and smite. That feat is just full of awesome for any wildshaper.

DominusMegadeus wrote:
Seriously. 8th level 16 Strength (+2 belt, +6 Wildshape = 24) Druid with Pounce (Bite 2d6+7 2 Claws 1d8+7), Rend (Claws 1d8+10), Trample (2d8+7 DC 21), Grab, Climb 90 feet, Low-light vision, Scent.

Unfortunately you do not get Rend from wildshape.


WagnerSika wrote:

If you take (and you really should) the Planar Wildshape feat you get Darkvision for animals. You also get DR and some energy resistances and smite. That feat is just full of awesome for any wildshaper.

DominusMegadeus wrote:
Seriously. 8th level 16 Strength (+2 belt, +6 Wildshape = 24) Druid with Pounce (Bite 2d6+7 2 Claws 1d8+7), Rend (Claws 1d8+10), Trample (2d8+7 DC 21), Grab, Climb 90 feet, Low-light vision, Scent.
Unfortunately you do not get Rend from wildshape.

There is a Feat for that.


The excellent thing about warcats is that since they are quadrupeds, their lack of rake can easily be made up for by putting on an Amulet of the Blooded (abyssal) after your transformation to gain claws on your hind legs. This gives the warcat a bite/claw/claw/claw/claw pounce routine that is just as good as that of any allosaurus. Adding more items like a Helm of the Mammoth Lord and a Fleshwarped Scorpion's Tail improves this to bite/claw/claw/claw/claw/gore/sting, and if you multiclass with barbarian or bloodrager with Shaping Focus you can drop a couple of those items while becoming even more deadly.


WagnerSika wrote:

If you take (and you really should) the Planar Wildshape feat you get Darkvision for animals. You also get DR and some energy resistances and smite. That feat is just full of awesome for any wildshaper.

DominusMegadeus wrote:
Seriously. 8th level 16 Strength (+2 belt, +6 Wildshape = 24) Druid with Pounce (Bite 2d6+7 2 Claws 1d8+7), Rend (Claws 1d8+10), Trample (2d8+7 DC 21), Grab, Climb 90 feet, Low-light vision, Scent.
Unfortunately you do not get Rend from wildshape.

Well crap. Rake/Rend confusion killing me.

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