Is there any official place about skipping checks for certain fly maneuvers?
For example, the hover maneuver or fly at less than half the speed for creatures like fairies and hummingbirds. It'll be a pain to keep rolling for those creatures every time they move. Also for the fly spell... it seems just an advanced form of levitate, so it should not have a check for slow speed or hover. Those things in such creatures and that spell should be just automatic... the same for ghosts, right?
What's the official position about those things?
Is there any official place about skipping checks for certain fly maneuvers?
For example, the hover maneuver or fly at less than half the speed for creatures like fairies and hummingbirds. It'll be a pain to keep rolling for those creatures every time they move. Also for the fly spell... it seems just an advanced form of levitate, so it should not have a check for slow speed or hover. Those things in such creatures and that spell should be just automatic... the same for ghosts, right?
What's the official position about those things?
I believe it's all covered under the Fly skill already, particularly when dealing with maneuverability ratings. Hover DC is 15, but a hummingbird gets massive bonuses for size and maneuverability that exceed the DC anyway, so it is an automatic success. No need to check except in high winds.
EDIT: Also, some feats override the need for checks.
if their fly bonus is greater than DC -1 you don't need to roll. Example, a fly skill of +9 autopasses a DC 10 check.
Fly is usually automatic not requiring a roll. Hovering in place requires a DC 15 FLY check. Unless the PC is jostled from a flying mount or involved in something interfering with their flight, a roll is usually not needed.
if their fly bonus is greater than DC -1 you don't need to roll. Example, a fly skill of +9 autopasses a DC 10 check.
That's an interesting method... Let's test the hummingbird with no skill ranks... class skill + diminutive bonus + perfect maneuverability: 3 + 6 + 8 = 15 enough to autopass hover and slow fly speed...
But it still does not solve the issue with ghosts, spectres and alike...
Fly is usually automatic not requiring a roll. Hovering in place requires a DC 15 FLY check. Unless the PC is jostled from a flying mount or involved in something interfering with their flight, a roll is usually not needed.
Well, this is how we house rule it, but... it still makes me think if the rule is not poorly made for such situations. For example, a ghost trying to attack you from behind, slowly approaching at you in the full darkeness... must make a slow speed maneuver check or it falls to the ground? Then it is not an horror challenge for the PCs but a cliche taken from a Scary Movie. O.o
Fly is usually automatic not requiring a roll. Hovering in place requires a DC 15 FLY check. Unless the PC is jostled from a flying mount or involved in something interfering with their flight, a roll is usually not needed.Well, this is how we house rule it, but... it still makes me think if the rule is not poorly made for such situations. For example, a ghost trying to attack you from behind, slowly approaching at you in the full darkeness... must make a slow speed maneuver check or it falls to the ground? Then it is not an horror challenge for the PCs but a cliche taken from a Scary Movie. O.o
Move slowly would be DC 10, the ghost has Fly +9. It cannot fail that check as skill checks cannot crit fail on a nat 1.
The other thing to keep in mind is that you can potentially fudge the take 10 rules with monsters doing things they're incredibly used to doing until combat starts. Then all bets are off.
yes, if not in combat they are taking 10. Also, magical flight might have some differences in how it works. Would need to look into it more to know for sure about that.
I was thinking in this scenario. The PCs are fighting some ghosts in some old ruins. The PCs jump across obstacles, the ghosts fly, so they just fly across devastated places with no floor below. Sometimes the ghosts just stop when facing the PCs in an attempt to cause fear on them. But if they stop in the middle of the air, being that a maneuver of 15, sometimes they'll just end falling down... something just absurd, and... of course it is not going to cause fear but laugh at the PCs.
I think it is a matter of common sense and not a matter of things stated in the rules...
I got the solution for ghosts and shadows: "Incorporeal creatures cannot fall or take falling damage" is stated on the incorporeal creature rules.
In the above ruins scenario the Ghost wouldn't fall it would just glide a little further than it wanted to.
I like that, instead of being a comic cliche it becomes a more terrifying thing at the end...
Also, keep in mind the oft-overlooked Beastiary Monster Feats:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterFeats.html
Especially Hover and Wingover, to address your question specifically.
But while you are there, check out Flyby Attack, the only way I know to use your own move speed before and after taking a standard action.
Flyby Attack plus a Reach weapon is hard to counter. Grab a bunch of Vital Strikes with that for extra fun.
Also, keep in mind the oft-overlooked Beastiary Monster Feats:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/bestiary/monsterFeats.html
Especially Hover and Wingover, to address your question specifically.
But while you are there, check out Flyby Attack, the only way I know to use your own move speed before and after taking a standard action.
Flyby Attack plus a Reach weapon is hard to counter. Grab a bunch of Vital Strikes with that for extra fun.
Those are nice feats. But, what's Vital Strikes?
Vital Strike (and Improved and Greater):
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/coreRulebook/feats.html#vital-strike
The idea of these feats is that instead of taking multiple iterative attacks in a round (the ones you get from having a high BAB), you just take one attack for extra damage.
The best use of vital strike, I think, is when all you have time for is a standard attack instead of a full round attack. If you are charging, or shooting and sniping, or Flyby Attacking.
While it isn't RAW, it seems reasonable to play that incorporeal undead like shadows, spectres and ghosts have no minimum fly speed, and can hover at will. I would never impose a fly check on those types of critters to stay in one place, for whatever combat or RP reasons.
This said, since they can always opt to "take ten" and have fly skills of +11 or higher, they will always succeed on any check from the table, barring unfavorable situational modifiers.
Note that even with winged creatures, or a character using the fly skill, failing a hover check merely requires them to move forward at least half speed, not plumet from the skies... unless they fail by five or more on the check (for winged creatures).
I think magical flight has different rules than winged flight.
AFAIK, the only difference is the caveat about falling when you miss a fly check by five or more.
Retry? Varies. You can attempt a Fly check to perform the same maneuver on subsequent rounds. If you are using wings and you fail a Fly check by 5 or more, you plummet to the ground, taking the appropriate falling damage.
While it isn't RAW, it seems reasonable to play that incorporeal undead like shadows, spectres and ghosts have no minimum fly speed, and can hover at will. I would never impose a fly check on those types of critters to stay in one place, for whatever combat or RP reasons.
This said, since they can always opt to "take ten" and have fly skills of +11 or higher, they will always succeed on any check from the table, barring unfavorable situational modifiers.
Ghosts and Spectres have perfect maneuverability, so they get a + 8 on any fly checks. Poor Shadows are only good maneuverability so they get +4. Both Spectres and Shadows have fly skill of +11 (probably including the maneuverability, but I didn't reverse engineer it to be sure).
That means those two monsters can make a DC 21 on a take 10 (which is probably always reasonable since they can't fall or anything) so you probably pretty much never need to make checks on them. Ghosts are a template, so what their final skill would be varies, but even without any DEX or skill points they get a DC 18 on a take 10, and with even a single point and no DEX bonus that goes to a DC 22. Once again, reasonable not to bother with worrying about rolling.
From the PRD:
"You gain a +3 bonus on all class skills that you put ranks into."
Oh! I forgot that... i was sure it only applied to the skills that require training. And for skills you can use with no training you got the +3 for free.
Well this is the bad part of taking 10: "Distractions or threats (such as combat) make it impossible for a character to take 10"; making a ghost or a sprite or hummingbird hard to hover in combat, but real hummingbirds do, and the sprites and ghosts hovering in combat is a cliche in many media.
But with the bonus and the feats mentioned above, i can manage it while keeping RAW with the core rules.
