I wont be able to respond for a bit... but I've got to finish making a character today and I have no idea what to go. Currently we have a fighter with 4 CHA and an alchemist with 10 & no cha skills so I'm trying to fill that void.
I know rogues, bards, and paladins can do it well.. but I've never liked sneak attacks, bards, or alignment based classes. What other options are there for a good party face?
Party will be good/chaotic for the most part, there's no firearms, but all archtypes & classes are available outside of summoners and juju oracles. We're starting level three with 25 point buy.
I know there are plenty of classes overall that possibly could, but I feel like I'm missing a few things (Like I heard there was a domain that can be used to be a party face without dumping points into it) and just want to see if there are any other options available to me.
Cavalier fits the bill nicely.
Edit: certain sorcerous bloodlines pick up Diplomacy as a class skill. Otherwise, you're eyeballing one of several traits. If traits aren't allowed, your options just shrank by an order of magnitude.
Cavalier fits the bill nicely.
Edit: certain sorcerous bloodlines pick up Diplomacy as a class skill. Otherwise, you're eyeballing one of several traits. If traits aren't allowed, your options just shrank by an order of magnitude.
The problem I've always had with sorcerers is they feel like worse versions of wizards. No versatility, 2 skill points a level. And outside of the impossible bloodline they don't come off as that interesting =/
I would suggest the new Mesmerist from Occult Adventures. You get lots of skill points, class skills and you actually really benefit from a high Charisma.
I second Mesmerist or even Medium, both make excellent faces and have new mechanics that are easy and fun to play (the Medium is a bit more complicated)
Just discovered this occult stuff, didn't even know it existed. Mesmerist looks like fun but I'm really liking what I'm seeing in psychic...
Just discovered this occult stuff, didn't even know it existed. Mesmerist looks like fun but I'm really liking what I'm seeing in psychic...
Sure, Psychics can work too, especially if you go for a Charisma-based Psychic Discipline. :)
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Since you didn't indicate if there was any particular role you want/need here's a few that get Diplomacy and have some sort of Cha-based class features: Swashbuckler, Skald, Ninja (ki pool is Cha based), Mesmerist, and Medium just off the top of my head.
Rogue gets Diplo as a class skill, of course.
You could do a search on Archives of Nethys for Diplomacy and check the Classes/Pets box to find any class, archetype, domain, bloodline or class feature that refers to Diplomacy. Unfortunately, the results may include classes that don't get it as a class skill, but that mention it somewhere in the classes page (like in a Wild Empathy class feature).
Almost All classes can be good party face with the right choice of stats and traits. Besides having good social skill what other stuff do you want to do?
Not sure to be honest, I like being useful out of combat and in combat but not being a heal bot. I prefer well rounded characters that can work well alone as well. Enjoyed unchained monk, inquisitor, & ninja when I played them. Meanwhile I hated sorcerer, rogue, lore oracle, and bloodrager when I tried those.
Really, any class will do fine. All you need for being the party face is a good Dilpmacy bonus or a good bluff bonus. You can use traits to make those class skills if they're not (and most of those also grant a +1, otherwise pick one that grants +2), you can use traits to change the ability used with the skill, and you can use feats to boost it up.
For example, my witch has 7 charisma and he is the party face. He has 20 intelligence, has a trait to make diplomacy a class skill and grant +1, another trait to use inteligence instead of charisma for diplomacy, and a familiar to grant a +3 bonus to diplomacy. At 1st level, he had a +13. I could have also pick up a skill focus feat and make it a +16 at first level. And it only went up from there as he leveled.
So pick whatever class you want to play and then use the other parts of the game to make your character into a party face.
The problem I've always had with sorcerers is they feel like worse versions of wizards. No versatility, 2 skill points a level. And outside of the impossible bloodline they don't come off as that interesting =/Cavalier fits the bill nicely.
Edit: certain sorcerous bloodlines pick up Diplomacy as a class skill. Otherwise, you're eyeballing one of several traits. If traits aren't allowed, your options just shrank by an order of magnitude.
This is a mentality problem combined with bad character design. Here's the thing: sorcs aren't Wizards. When sorcerers start to feel like inadequate wizards, it's because you're trying to play them like a wizard when they very much cannot be. Sorcerers' power lies elsewhere. They make excellent blasters, they make excellent characters who need a niche spell over and over again. I had a sorcerer dominate my carrion crown game with lots of create pit + mad monkeys (and later on create pit + black tentacles).
I very strongly suggest reading the guides to sorcerers for a better understanding of how a sorc should be played - especially if you feel that they're just worse versions of Wizards. I know what you're feeling; I used to think the same thing.
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Since you said that you enjoyed well-rounded characters, then any 6/9 level caster will allow you to be useful both in and out of combat, as well as some 4th level casters.
Inquisitors can be excellent in the "face" role; 6 + Int mod skill ranks and all of the social skills as class skills. Stern Gaze also gives them bonuses to Intimidate (so you can put some skill ranks in other skills and still do very well) and Sense Motive.
Oracles can also work if you just want to focus on Diplomacy and Sense Motive; 4 + Int mod skill ranks and a Cha-based caster.
Investigator is another excellent choice; 6 + Int mod skill ranks, all the social skills, and an Int-based "caster" (there is some overlap with the alchemist, but the sleuth archetype trades extracts for Sleuth's Luck and the psychic investigator trades extracts for psychic spells). Inspiration can be used to gain bonuses to skill rolls; also, the talents Empathy (5th level), Expanded Inspiration, Inspired Intimidator, and Underworld Inspiration can add more options.
Swashbuckler could work as a more combat-focused option; 4 + Int mod skill ranks, all the social skills, and Panache is Cha-based.
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If your like me, which it seems you are, then that means you prefer prepared casters over spontanious ones like the sorcerer. Most prepared casters sadly do not cast off charisma, yet fear not, because if traits are in play, some prepared casters do actually want some charisma and can thus make good faces. Necromancer wizards, unlike their anti-social peers, actually want charisma to be a decent score for their power to command undead. Even further, the Dhampr, a +cha race, has a very powerful necromancy-focused racial archtype for the wizard class that you should defineitly consider if your thinking about playing a necromancer. Likewise, Diabolists also favor having a strong charisma score so they can pass their cha checks to bind fiends even easier, and possibly even bind things like sccubi. Likewise, Negative energy channeling clerics who focus on their channeling also want a good cha and get diplomacy(and bluff if trickery is one of your domains.) as a class skill. If you want something less "dark" in fluff Arcanists can be quite wizard-like and post-errata actually want some charisma, paticularly those with the Occultist Archtypr which lets them spend a hefty amount of reservoir points(which are restored through a now-cha-based ability) to summon things with a standard action.
A wizard is actually a pretty good option, if you're willing to put some resources into it. I'm a big fan of "wizard master race", and I don't like most wizard feat options, so I like spending a couple on skill focus linguistics and orator. If you're human, you can take focused study and get more bang for your buck. Thanks to the wizard's SADness, you basically get 12 for bluff, intimidate, diplomacy and linguistics at level 1, and progress them at a fourth of the cost. Since you have a 25 point buy, and can dump charisma, you can take a high wisdom and use the 8th level focused study skill focus for sense motive as well. If the feats are too much of an investment for you, but you still want to be a wizard, clever word, student of philosophy and bruising intellect all help getting that pesky charisma out of the way. If you really want to go all out on being a face, you can even be a manipulator enchanter.
Strong suggestion? If you use Ultimate Magic, get your Charisma above 15 and snag Voice of the Sibyl. It makes *anybody* a viable Party Face.
As for suggestions in general, obviously the Bard is the ultimate Party Face, with Mesmerist, Cavalier, and Paladin as good follow ups.
Summoner is another *really* good one, particularly since reaching high levels means that your Face skills increase your potential power exponentially through Planar Allies and such.
phones: ugh.
Given the great advice you've already recieved, I'll just add one idea: experience its inquisitor focusing on linguistics with the traits and feats to make that happen. Great stuff!
Well Thanks for the advice! I went with psychic, grabbed a high int score and went abomination discipline so I also scale off of CHA. Grabbed some books (Book of letters, etc) trait-ed for UMD & Disguise and here in 1-2 levels I'll be hitting 22 Intellect so I'll be grabbing 2 more skill points retroactively.
http://www.myth-weavers.com/sheet.html#id=585946
Skill points are a little spread thin though, but I don't plan to keep raising the knowledge checks.
I opted for skill focus rather than persuasive because our fighter has an unbelievably high intimidate score so I won't need it as much.
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Oh heck. I'm too late.
I was going to suggest a Glory domain Cleric for the Touch of Glory (Sp) power. This gives you a character that can heal and still do cha checks.
Touch of Glory (Sp): You can cause your hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for 1 hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Oh heck. I'm too late.
I was going to suggest a Glory domain Cleric for the Touch of Glory (Sp) power. This gives you a character that can heal and still do cha checks.
Touch of Glory (Sp): You can cause your hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for 1 hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
Could be worse. I was pondering a build that took advantage of Barbarian skill points and Intimidation. Granted, that might make you more the party heel than party face.
Oh heck. I'm too late.
I was going to suggest a Glory domain Cleric for the Touch of Glory (Sp) power. This gives you a character that can heal and still do cha checks.
Touch of Glory (Sp): You can cause your hand to shimmer with divine radiance, allowing you to touch a creature as a standard action and give it a bonus equal to your cleric level on a single Charisma-based skill check or Charisma ability check. This ability lasts for 1 hour or until the creature touched elects to apply the bonus to a roll. You can use this ability to grant the bonus a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
I was actually going to go a travel domain inquisitor if I went that route and grabbed the Trade subdomain.
Silver-Tongued Haggler (Su): Whenever you make a Bluff, Diplomacy, or Sense Motive check, you can, as a free action, grant yourself a bonus on the roll equal to 1/2 your cleric level (minimum +1). You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to 3 + your Wisdom modifier.
It subs you inquisitor level for cleric level. But having already played an inquisitor I wanted to avoid that (Also our group lacked a caster)
Archaeologist "Bard".
All the nice party face abiliteis, without all the zany entertainer fluff.
Indiana Jones.
phones: ugh.
Given the great advice you've already recieved, I'll just add one idea: experience its inquisitor focusing on linguistics with the traits and feats to make that happen. Great stuff!
GRRRRR
"Empiricist Investigator" not "experience inquisitor" :/
Sorry: phones.
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phones: ugh.
Given the great advice you've already recieved, I'll just add one idea: experience its inquisitor focusing on linguistics with the traits and feats to make that happen. Great stuff!
GRRRRR
"Empiricist Investigator" not "experience inquisitor" :/
Sorry: phones.
Oh god, I played that in my last campaign.
I like being able to do more than check the lore on my opponents and occasionally hit one for the damage of a wet noodle (if I hit).
Also my DM hated me, as they should not be allowed in 25 point buy. Just... the skills get out of control real quick. Especially when I dump my feats into skill foci to get those harder to use ones (UMD).
Heck... now I wonder if investigators can use their extra skill rolls on occultist skill checks. Pick up that psychic thing and hypnotize people even sooner.