I am planning on running Hells Rebels for my Girlfriend, and two other friends (playing a Water Kineticist and Underground Chemist/Vivisectionist) and my GF wants a certian character concept.
She wants to be a hippy, have a big sword she can polish to use as a mirror (because she is a narcissist) and try out spellcasting and have an Animal Companion. The problem I can't figure is what would fit the rational while also preparing the PC enough for an urban, social campaign.
After talking to her about gods, Shelyn seems to suit the artist side of hippy culture, so the hope is to give the nature flavor through Class abilities. A Ranger seems like the best option to me, but I can't find an archetype that fits. The main fear for me is under-equiping her for social situations, and abilities like Woodland Stride will be effectively useless.
The Urban Ranger is terrible, I once wanted to play one before seeing how utterly stupid their favored terrain variant is.
I also concidered Feral Child but I rather Player Characters avoid summoning spells (you can see my opinion of the issue here) There is also the issue that they can't take urban terrain, which is fixed very easily with any Prestiege Class without the limitation (such as Horizon Walker or Nature Warden) but it doesn't seem optimal.
I've also concidered an Order of the Green Cavalier, maybe a Huntmaster.
I don't want to over complicate conditional modifiers, as I think she will forget when to apply them. I'm just looking for a simple class with lots of flavor for a beginner player. I think I have too much thought and concern about making the perfect character, I can't be content with any solution I come to.
Starting level 2, 20 point buy. She wants to play an Elf of Gnome, could probably convince her to take Half-Elf.
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Maybe the wild hunter? I'll look for more...
A freebooter with the Animal Ally feat.
At higher levels, the evangelist or sentinel prestige classes could be an option...
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Paladin of Shelyn. She'll get the bonded mount at 5, have spellcasting, charisma for Diplomacy, and proficient in the greatsword!
Look, I don't know what I was thinking, but this guy makes a valid point.
If she doesn't want a horse, Animal Ally is still on the table. And there's always... this. :D
Well, a magus could get a familiar. If they want their pet to fight they can get the mauler archetype. An eldritch scion is more charisma based, so that might be good.
Shelyn is neutral good, so you can go paladin. I'd let them take a feat to be able to get an unusual creature as a mount. They are also charisma based. I can see a narcissist paladin, but it would depend on the other traits.
Hunter is pretty simple and hits the animal companion, spellcasting and fighting buttons.
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A hunter that pays lip service to Shelyn sounds perfect. They get lots of skills, have an animal companion, and are frankly just a freaking awesome class. You don't have to get a mechanical benefit from a god just to venerate it. They are spontaneous casters so you can just pick out a few good spells that will work well for her. She won't have to worry about having an entire library of choices each day (as with prepared divine casters).
Yes, hunters still get woodland stride, but they've got so much else in their arsenal it won't matter that it's useless.
Straight Ranger. Favored enemy human, favored terrain urban.
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I was thinking cleric of ketephys, but she needs to burn a feat for greatsword proficiency.
Urban rangers are fine:p favored community = city in question. Besides, never missed too much about the terrain bonuses anyway.
Nature Oracle could work, but also feat tax for greatsword.
Your GF sounds a little new to this and usually I don't recommend paladins for new people because of the strict alignment code.
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Maybe the wild hunter? I'll look for more...
A freebooter with the Animal Ally feat.
At higher levels, the evangelist or sentinel prestige classes could be an option...
I remeber looking at the Wild Hunter and hating it, and now I like it, because I'm fickle like that. I think keeping track of only Favored Terrain might be a stronger option. Thankyou for the suggestion!
We could also go all in with the Hunter Class, the Divine Hunter of Shelyn could gain access to the Reformation Inquisition to give her some social power, and the Cunning Liar trait (from Heroes of the Streets) to add Wisdom to Bluff.
Pack Tactics could compensate for the lack of Hunter Tactics, and Lay of the Land could give acess to Horizon Walker or Nature Warden.
What do you think?
I think that the Freebooter might be a little too fiddely though.
Paladin of Shelyn. She'll get the bonded mount at 5, have spellcasting, charisma for Diplomacy, and proficient in the greatsword!
I like it but she wants to be Chaotic Neutral, sorry, I left that out.
Just posting to say that I'm working on it. I'll have a framework concept just as soon as I can get a few things to work. Rest assured, it's possible! :D
I look forward to it.
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Contributor
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Maybe the wild hunter? I'll look for more...
A freebooter with the Animal Ally feat.
At higher levels, the evangelist or sentinel prestige classes could be an option...
I remeber looking at the Wild Hunter and hating it, and now I like it, because I'm fickle like that. I think keeping track of only Favored Terrain might be a stronger option. Thankyou for the suggestion!
We could also go all in with the Hunter Class, the Divine Hunter of Shelyn could gain access to the Reformation Inquisition to give her some social power, and the Cunning Liar trait (from Heroes of the Streets) to add Wisdom to Bluff.
Pack Tactics could compensate for the lack of Hunter Tactics, and Lay of the Land could give acess to Horizon Walker or Nature Warden.
What do you think?
I think Wild Hunter is a strong pick (and I'm with you on Freebooter).
The Divine Hunter is a nice idea, but she would need an alignment tweak - one-step rule at work. Otherwise, I think I like that build better.
I would show her both and see what she thinks. One is more fighty, the other more casty. Feeling her out on that choice might be good. ^_^
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Well, a magus could get a familiar. If they want their pet to fight they can get the mauler archetype. An eldritch scion is more charisma based, so that might be good.
Shelyn is neutral good, so you can go paladin. I'd let them take a feat to be able to get an unusual creature as a mount. They are also charisma based. I can see a narcissist paladin, but it would depend on the other traits.
Hunter is pretty simple and hits the animal companion, spellcasting and fighting buttons.
Hunter is sounding better and better the more I think about it. Thanks for the suggestion.
A hunter that pays lip service to Shelyn sounds perfect. They get lots of skills, have an animal companion, and are frankly just a freaking awesome class. You don't have to get a mechanical benefit from a god just to venerate it. They are spontaneous casters so you can just pick out a few good spells that will work well for her. She won't have to worry about having an entire library of choices each day (as with prepared divine casters).
Yes, hunters still get woodland stride, but they've got so much else in their arsenal it won't matter that it's useless.
You bring up a lot of good points. Just to clarify I'm not against her getting Woodland Stride, I'm just worried she wont get enough tools to prepare her for a socal game.
Straight Ranger. Favored enemy human, favored terrain urban.
A strong choice, maybe I'm just trying too hard.
If she's OK with half-elf, a wild caller summoner is an option...
I like to avoid Summoner PCs in my games.
I was thinking cleric of ketephys, but she needs to burn a feat for greatsword proficiency.
Urban rangers are fine:p favored community = city in question. Besides, never missed too much about the terrain bonuses anyway.
Nature Oracle could work, but also feat tax for greatsword.
Your GF sounds a little new to this and usually I don't recommend paladins for new people because of the strict alignment code.
I was thinking of giving her an Elven Curve Blade, using strength to wield. That crit range man, that crit range.
I agree Palading probably doesn't suit.
I think Wild Hunter is a strong pick (and I'm with you on Freebooter).
The Divine Hunter is a nice idea, but she would need an alignment tweak - one-step rule at work. Otherwise, I think I like that build better.
I would show her both and see what she thinks. One is more fighty, the other more casty. Feeling her out on that choice might be good. ^_^
I was like "isn't Shelyn Neutral Good?" and then I realised I accidentally wrote CN instead of CG, so that shouldn't be a problem
Thanks for suggesting Wild Hunter, I concidered making a Hunter class before but one of the players said it would be too complicated. After your suggestion I saw Animal Focus and took a second look. I think I like this build the most.
The best part is I can play her Animal Companion as a GMPC until she feels comfterble to control it herself.
We'll see what she likes though.
Favored Community has come in handy multiple times for my players. If you're going to be in an urban, social campaign, then favored community will be super useful more than favored terrain could be.
Plus stepping through crowds, disable device as a class skill, and all the trap stuff.
It's good.
Just so I understand, what happens when you raise an Animal Companions intellegence to 3? apparently no animal can have an intellegence of 3 or higher
Also does the Celestial template make them a Magical Beast?
I'm also now concidering the Sacred Huntmaster as an option. Opinions?
Tossing in another recommendation of Hunter.
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Just so I understand, what happens when you raise an Animal Companions intellegence to 3? apparently no animal can have an intellegence of 3 or higher
Also does the Celestial template make them a Magical Beast?
I'm also now concidering the Sacred Huntmaster as an option. Opinions?
An animal companion with 3+ Int is still an animal companion, complete with tricks and Handle Animal requirements. The big change is that they can now take any feat they qualify for.
No. If it doesn't specifically say so, then it doesn't. (It used to in 3.5, though.)
Not familiar with Sacred Huntmaster. The inquisitor is a complex class with lots of fiddly bits, though...
I got the idea from the animal type from the Paizo Reference Document so I'm trying to understand if the Animal Companion ascends or something.
The reason I am considering Sacred Huntmaster is the ability to have both Hunters Tactics and access to Domains, which can give Wisdom to social Stats. All abilities related to Judgments are traded away, which I think was the most complicated part of Inquisitors.
The Sacred Hunter and Divine Hunter seem to be very similar classes, the biggest difference as I can see it is the choice of Clerics or Druids spell list.
Also in terms of flavor, I think the Hunter suits my GFs character concept more than Inquisitor, but Inquisitor has more applicable abilities to a social campaign. So conflicts there
An Inquisitor with the Animal Domain would be awesome. It gets an Animal Companion at 4th level and doesn't lose any of the Inquisitor's cool features.
If this is a home game, you should also consider simply allowing a custom feat that gives her a scaling mount or animal companion.... Or maybe just change the Ranger's list of class skills (not that being a class skill makes much of a difference, anyway).
An Inquisitor with the Animal Domain would be awesome. It gets an Animal Companion at 4th level and doesn't lose any of the Inquisitor's cool features.
If this is a home game, you should also consider simply allowing a custom feat that gives her a scaling mount or animal companion.... Or maybe just change the Ranger's list of class skills (not that being a class skill makes much of a difference, anyway).
What is the advantage of the Animal Domain over Sacred Huntmaster, which, gives a full level Animal Companion?
If by "animal companion" you simply mean a pet of some sort, VMC Wizard or Witch gives you a familiar at 3rd level and can be combined with any other class -- or you could get the same result via the Eldritch Heritage line of feats and an appropriate bloodline choice (Wildblooded/Sylvan for an actual animal companion, or Arcane for a standard familiar, among many other possibilities). The Bard class would give you social skills, spellcasting, and proficiency with a longsword.
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by Animal Companion I mean the Hunter and Sacred Huntmaster Class Feature Animal Companion
At 1st level, a sacred huntsmaster forms a bond with an animal companion. This ability works as the hunter class feature of the same name, using her inquisitor level as her hunter level.
This ability replaces judgment 1/day
I could also gain an Animal Companion through Animal Ally for a much lower Feat Tax than VMC
(no pun intended).
Thats a lie and you know it :P
Seems like an urban druid would work ok. Use a trait or feat for a big sword.
Might need help pick out a list of commonly-used spells to make it easier.
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You get to keep Judgment.
I think Judgement is a little bit too fiddley for a new player - losing Judgment is actually a feature in this case. Animal Focus' are also more standardised bonuses, and Hunters Tactics help her utilise her animal compainion better.
I talked to my GF, She seems to like the Hunter option the most; I narrowed down the key difference to what sort of spells she wanted to cast - spells from her god or spells from nature.
I think she is going to miss Hunter Tactics, as Pack Tactics doesn't provide as great of benifit, but her Animal Companion does get Outflank for free.
I feel the two most important Teamwork Feats for the build (as this is going to be a Melee Hunter) are Pack Flanking and Intercept Charge (although others might feel differently, let me know your opinions) The Animal Companion will need to take Intercept charge himself but I think it is worth it.
I'd like suggestions for build ideas, it should be noted that Power Attack, Deadly Aim and Combat Expertise are given for free to any creature that meets the Prereqs.
Sounds like you're the GM, so you can tweak things a bit if you want as well.
I can see not wanting to set that kind of precedent, or look like your favoring you GF.
Sounds like you're the GM, so you can tweak things a bit if you want as well.
I can see not wanting to set that kind of precedent, or look like your favoring you GF.
Yeah, thats actually exactly it
I find it's also good not to alter the rules too much for newbie players whilest they are still understanding them.
Druid has hippie written all over it. It also gets an animal if you go that route. As for a big sword, is wielding a longsword in two hands good enough? Then she could be an elf.