RPG Superstar 2013 Top 8
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I'm not aware of an offical ruling for this (if somebody knows of one could you link it?). IMO the answer is yes (which would also go for other casters who get access to non-core spells through owning scrolls). If there isn't yet an official ruling I hope that the new campaign coordinator will chime in when he/she gets a chance! :)
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You have access to the spell, why should you not also have access to scrolls, wands, and potions of the spell? Basically I'm arguing that access to the spell is access to the associated spell trigger, spell completion, and potion items.
I agree with Dave; I don't think you can take it for granted that this extension exists.
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You have access to the spell, why should you not also have access to scrolls, wands, and potions of the spell? Basically I'm arguing that access to the spell is access to the associated spell trigger, spell completion, and potion items.
The rules for non-Core 'things' are very clear. The item you wish to purchase must be on a chronicle sheet. If not, then you cannot purchase the item. End of story. There is no argument here to make.
Nowhere in the Guide does it mention that by having access to the spell grant you the access you desire.
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Nowhere in the rules governing the Core campaign does it say you can do this. PFS rules are such that if it doesn't say you can, then you can't.
What evidence do you have to back your position?
In this argument, just because a implies b, it does not follow that b implies a. Unless it specifically states such in the rule. Which i do not see, lest I'm missing something.
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Nowhere in the rules governing the Core campaign does it say you can do this. PFS rules are such that if it doesn't say you can, then you can't.
What evidence do you have to back your position?
In this argument, just because a implies b, it does not follow that b implies a. Unless it specifically states such in the rule. Which i do not see, lest I'm missing something.
Actually, Dave, the question seems to be if access to the spell grants access to the spell.
Addendum: If you somehow got to play an Alchemist in Core, through an unspecified unlock, and that Alchemist PC got access to purchase Tangleburn Bags on a chronicle, could that Alchemist craft said items, or could they only purchase them?
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Access in a house campaign to a scroll, potion, or wand of a spell that the GM has restricted is limited to your crafting options or another specific exemption by the GM.
In PFS crafting is not allowed, and we have a list of specific exemptions based on the adventures you have played (chronicle sheets.)
That is the logic I use to come to the consclusion that no, without further clarification from campaign leadership, such a purchase would not be legal.
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Is copying non-core spells from spellbooks still legal? I know that it was in season 6 based on a blog post, but there's no mention of it in the Organized Play Guide 7.0. All I can find there that seems to apply at all is this:
Core Mode play characters may not use any feat, trait, equipment, magic item, skill, or any other rule item from a resource outside the Core Campaign Resources unless it appears on a core play Chronicle sheet.
I'd think if that was meant to still apply it would have made it into the current Guide like, for example, the language rule did.
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Is copying non-core spells from spellbooks still legal? ...
Yes. the blog post you refer to is only clarifying that the FAQ on the issue applies to the Core campaign, and not just to Standard. This is expected, as the rules don't change between the two, just the available default resources.
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this thread has caused me to wonder about something "access related".
If a PC has access to a wand with a non-core spell on it, do they have access to the spell?
If not, how could they cast the spell from the wand? I mean, if they don't have access to the spell, just to the item, then the spell isn't on their spell list, so they couldn't use the wand with the spell... could they?
This is making my head hurt...
this thread has caused me to wonder about something "access related".
If a PC has access to a wand with a non-core spell on it, do they have access to the spell?
If not, how could they cast the spell from the wand? I mean, if they don't have access to the spell, just to the item, then the spell isn't on their spell list, so they couldn't use the wand with the spell... could they?
This is making my head hurt...
As Dave Baker said, PFS rules are meant to be as unambiguous as possible. It might lead to some situations like this that seem pretty dumb and almost counter-intuitive, but those are the rules.
Let's say you have a Core wizard who gets his hands on a wand of vanish. I'm pretty sure how this works is that you're considered to have "enough" casting access to use the wand-- it's a wizard spell, after all. But you don't have enough to write it into your spellbook when you level up, because you're Core. I agree that it's weird-- but we're already playing in an environment in which an intelligent item with a specific personality that appears on a Chronicle sheet has potentially unlimited clones of itself (one per player). So PFS is already weird.
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this thread has caused me to wonder about something "access related".
If a PC has access to a wand with a non-core spell on it, do they have access to the spell?
If not, how could they cast the spell from the wand? I mean, if they don't have access to the spell, just to the item, then the spell isn't on their spell list, so they couldn't use the wand with the spell... could they?
This is making my head hurt...
As Dave Baker said, PFS rules are meant to be as unambiguous as possible. It might lead to some situations like this that seem pretty dumb and almost counter-intuitive, but those are the rules.
Let's say you have a Core wizard who gets his hands on a wand of vanish. I'm pretty sure how this works is that you're considered to have "enough" casting access to use the wand-- it's a wizard spell, after all. But you don't have enough to write it into your spellbook when you level up, because you're Core. I agree that it's weird-- but we're already playing in an environment in which an intelligent item with a specific personality that appears on a Chronicle sheet has potentially unlimited clones of itself (one per player). So PFS is already weird.
actually I don't think the wizard could cast it. It would be like a Wand of Cure Light Wounds which is on the Bard list (and thus an Arcane spell) but not on his Spell List (not a wizard spell). So he could UMD it, but not just activate it. IMHO.
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actually I don't think the wizard could cast it. It would be like a Wand of Cure Light Wounds which is on the Bard list (and thus an Arcane spell) but not on his Spell List (not a wizard spell). So he could UMD it, but not just activate it. IMHO.this thread has caused me to wonder about something "access related".
If a PC has access to a wand with a non-core spell on it, do they have access to the spell?
If not, how could they cast the spell from the wand? I mean, if they don't have access to the spell, just to the item, then the spell isn't on their spell list, so they couldn't use the wand with the spell... could they?
This is making my head hurt...
As Dave Baker said, PFS rules are meant to be as unambiguous as possible. It might lead to some situations like this that seem pretty dumb and almost counter-intuitive, but those are the rules.
Let's say you have a Core wizard who gets his hands on a wand of vanish. I'm pretty sure how this works is that you're considered to have "enough" casting access to use the wand-- it's a wizard spell, after all. But you don't have enough to write it into your spellbook when you level up, because you're Core. I agree that it's weird-- but we're already playing in an environment in which an intelligent item with a specific personality that appears on a Chronicle sheet has potentially unlimited clones of itself (one per player). So PFS is already weird.
That I'd disagree with. It's still a wizard spell. It's just a wizard spell that he doesn't have access to in any form other than the wand. So he doesn't have a scroll, can't copy it into his spellbook and prepare it, etc.
Now there's a question: If you get a scroll of a non-Core spell from a chronicle, can a wizard copy it into his spellbook and continue to use it in the future? I know spellbooks can be copied, but scrolls?
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actually I don't think the wizard could cast it. It would be like a Wand of Cure Light Wounds which is on the Bard list (and thus an Arcane spell) but not on his Spell List (not a wizard spell). So he could UMD it, but not just activate it. IMHO.this thread has caused me to wonder about something "access related".
If a PC has access to a wand with a non-core spell on it, do they have access to the spell?
If not, how could they cast the spell from the wand? I mean, if they don't have access to the spell, just to the item, then the spell isn't on their spell list, so they couldn't use the wand with the spell... could they?
This is making my head hurt...
As Dave Baker said, PFS rules are meant to be as unambiguous as possible. It might lead to some situations like this that seem pretty dumb and almost counter-intuitive, but those are the rules.
Let's say you have a Core wizard who gets his hands on a wand of vanish. I'm pretty sure how this works is that you're considered to have "enough" casting access to use the wand-- it's a wizard spell, after all. But you don't have enough to write it into your spellbook when you level up, because you're Core. I agree that it's weird-- but we're already playing in an environment in which an intelligent item with a specific personality that appears on a Chronicle sheet has potentially unlimited clones of itself (one per player). So PFS is already weird.
That I'd disagree with. It's still a wizard spell. It's just a wizard spell that he doesn't have access to in any form other than the wand. So he doesn't have a scroll, can't copy it into his spellbook and prepare it, etc.
Now there's a question: If you get a scroll of a non-Core spell from a chronicle, can a wizard copy it into his spellbook and continue to use it in the future? I know spellbooks can be copied, but scrolls?
so... what about a cleric spell? Does a Cleric who owns a wand of a non-core spell have the ability to prepare that spell? Let's say Burning Disarm. Cleric has a wand of it. Can he prepare it?
a) NO - he doesn't have access to prepare it. This means that he can use a wand of a spell that is not on his spell list... Kind of like using a wand of Longstrider when he doesn't have the Travel Domain (a cleric with Travel would have it on his spell list and thus could use it). The spell isn't on his spell list - yet he can use the wand.
b) YES - the spell is on his spell list, and thus he can both prepare it and use the wand.
The wizard with the wand of vanish is in the same boat. He has a spell on a wand that is either:
a) not on his spell list.
or
b) on his spell list - BUT NOT IN HIS BOOK.
Now, let's talk Sorcerer/Bard... if he gets the wand of vanish can he cast it? If he can, can he then add the spell (which would have to be on his spell list for him to be able to use the spell trigger item) when he levels and gains a new 1st level spell known? (Spells Known are picked from his spell list).
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Lots and lots of stuff about clerics, bards and sorcerers
IIRC, and I can't find it right now, if there is a scroll of a non-Core spell on the Chronicle sheet, a spontaneous caster can buy it and 'expend it' to put it on their list of spells from which they can choose. Or it may be that they can choose it when they next level up.
I think this also applied to clerics, but as I said, I can't find the specific rule clarification in regards.
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Lots and lots of stuff about clerics, bards and sorcerersIIRC, and I can't find it right now, if there is a scroll of a non-Core spell on the Chronicle sheet, a spontaneous caster can buy it and 'expend it' to put it on their list of spells from which they can choose. Or it may be that they can choose it when they next level up.
I think this also applied to clerics, but as I said, I can't find the specific rule clarification in regards.
Using a scroll in that way would add the spell to their spell list, just as adding it to a wizards Spellbook would add it to her spell list.
But absent the scroll, with only a wand, it is either not on the spell list and can't be cast without UMD, or the wand gives access, and the spell is on their spell list.
If it's on the list, it can be added when they get new spells (and a cleric can prep it).
So, it looks to me like they wouldn't be able to use the wand....IMHO.
Venture-Captain, California—San Francisco Bay Area South & West
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I think we are creating needless abstractions and complex rules for what was supposed to be an otherwise simple ruling (in my mind, at least).
Core Spells Known: CORE, plus any you use a scroll (found on chronicle) or spell book to learn (Including the forum/blog/FAQ post about spontaneous casters also being allowed to do so).
Originally, the only way you could get access to anything non-CORE was from finding it on a chronicle, or from actually learning spells from a spellbook that was explicitly mentioned in a scenario. Unfortunately that went by the wayside some time ago, when it was ruled that PCs could copy non-core spells from other PCs spellbooks. So you didn't have to actually earn access to the spell by playing the scenario; all you had to do was adventure with somebody who had the spell in their spellbook.
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I like it that way, myself. It's cool to have an incentive to share your spellbooks to gain secret and mysterious spells you'very never heard of before.
As for non-wizards learning non-core spells, read this.
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I think we are creating needless abstractions and complex rules for what was supposed to be an otherwise simple ruling (in my mind, at least).
Core Spells Known: CORE, plus any you use a scroll (found on chronicle) or spell book to learn (Including the forum/blog/FAQ post about spontaneous casters also being allowed to do so).
Wands of Non-Core spells: Still function the same, you just cannot buy them unless they appear on a chronicle sheet. Much like unique items that are not always available, that is the only way to acquire them, but they still function as such. Wands are not enough to allow you to learn the spell (since you normally cannot learn a spell from a Wand anyway)
That's how I view it. Now, to answer OP:
IMO, no, having access to a spell is not enough to purchase wand/potion/scroll of it, based on the "No Crafting" segment of PFS.
How I like to see Core is a weird reset of Golarion rules: There aren't a lot of Non-Core wizards opening shops (you can't purchase Non-core stuff generally), so you would have to make the item. But you can't craft, so you are not allowed to have non-core spells as items unless they appear on a chronicle.
But what if you are a Wizard with, say, Vanish in your spellbook due to running across a scroll of it at some point. You also use a bonded item, a wand. Due to Pathfinder rules, and the PFS FAQ, you can, effectively, use Crafting on your bonded item, which is a wand, so can you make that a wand of Vanish?