Our group is 20 point buy and we are using the Unchained action economy and automatic bonus progression (normal rate).
I'm curious as to what you would do with it. What talents would you get? Skill unlocks? How would you approach combat and out of combat?
The other party members are a swashbuckler, an oracle (low str), and a witch. There are lots of open sea areas. GM took inspiration from Path of Exile (which I haven't played past the warden)
I have an Unchained Rogue (UR) in my weekly game, but we aren't using anything else from that book so I have no experience with the alternate action economy. From what I've seen, the UR has a lot of potential because the class doesn't need to invest in as many feats as a standard rogue to work as the archetypical sneaking-and-stabbing melee flanker.
Debilitating Strike is a cool ability I think, especially since it doesn't require any additional investments or forgoing sneak attack damage to work. Its nothing major, but it really helps to give the rogue a small advantage in combat and also facilitates teamwork quite nicely.
Skill unlocks depend rather heavily on the type of adventure you're in and how your character fits into the party. Since it sounds like naval combat might be a possibility for you, consider Acrobatics (although the target DC might become kinda unbeatable if you do Acrobatics just on the side, so to speak) or Swim (swim speed should be very appropriate for you). Perception makes a good all-around classic if your GM is fond of jumping your party in the middle of the night.
As for rogue talents, I guess opinions differ wildly. For a melee rogue, Bleeding Attack or Stand Up look good. For a naval campaign, Hold Breath and Ledge Walker might be worth considering, although Hold Breath is probably useless once your fellow spellcasters start to provide buffs like water breathing.
TWF is the optimal damage style.
Twist Away is the best way to avoid dying, even if you have to be staggered.
Iron Will and such are super important.
I live and die by Circling Mongoose + Canny Tumble - guaranteed sneak attacks are great.
While TWF looks good due to rolling *so many* sneak attack dice it has a lot of downsides. Hit rolls are a problem until you land a Debilitating Injury.
Personally I reckon the Unchained Rogue's hidden strength is the ability to Dex-to-damage with 2-handed weapons for a 1.5x bonus, with or without power attack. 13 Str and Power Attack can be really valuable for this sort of build. Elven Curve Blades and Aldori Dueling Swords both let you do this. This way you're still putting out acceptable damage when restricted to a single attack or denied sneak attack. With the Scout archetype you'll be putting out consistent big hits on the move, even without invisibility/flanking/whatever.
Major Magic is useful. Doubly so if you're permitted Quicken SLA. Even if all you use it for is casting Shield before combat it's still increasing your survivability a lot, or Vanish for escapes/sneak attacks, or dozens of other things. Minor Magic isn't even really much of a talent tax when you consider how useful Detect Magic or Prestidigitation can be.
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With Unchained Action Economy, you'll be able to get lots of attacks. Look at feats that boost your accuracy, specifically while flanking. Grab Outflank with an ally as soon as you can, grab a Menacing weapon, and get into a flank so you can make as many attacks as possible. Unchained action economy REALLY helps martial characters, and Rogue is no exception.
While TWF looks good due to rolling *so many* sneak attack dice it has a lot of downsides. Hit rolls are a problem until you land a Debilitating Injury.
Personally I reckon the Unchained Rogue's hidden strength is the ability to Dex-to-damage with 2-handed weapons for a 1.5x bonus, with or without power attack. 13 Str and Power Attack can be really valuable for this sort of build. Elven Curve Blades and Aldori Dueling Swords both let you do this. This way you're still putting out acceptable damage when restricted to a single attack or denied sneak attack. With the Scout archetype you'll be putting out consistent big hits on the move, even without invisibility/flanking/whatever.
This was my opinion until I ran the numbers. TWF is always superior, even if you don't land Debilitating Injury.
Also, if you can ensure sneak attacks, Piranha Strike isn't that great.
So the Circling Mongoose + Canny Tumble TWF build is the one with the highest guaranteed output.
Canny Tumble ensures a sneak attack so it's sweet like that.
While TWF looks good due to rolling *so many* sneak attack dice it has a lot of downsides. Hit rolls are a problem until you land a Debilitating Injury.
Personally I reckon the Unchained Rogue's hidden strength is the ability to Dex-to-damage with 2-handed weapons for a 1.5x bonus, with or without power attack. 13 Str and Power Attack can be really valuable for this sort of build. Elven Curve Blades and Aldori Dueling Swords both let you do this. This way you're still putting out acceptable damage when restricted to a single attack or denied sneak attack. With the Scout archetype you'll be putting out consistent big hits on the move, even without invisibility/flanking/whatever.
This was my opinion until I ran the numbers. TWF is always superior, even if you don't land Debilitating Injury.
Also, if you can ensure sneak attacks, Piranha Strike isn't that great.
So the Circling Mongoose + Canny Tumble TWF build is the one with the highest guaranteed output.
Canny Tumble ensures a sneak attack so it's sweet like that.
That is a sick combo, but this game doesn't have full-attacks. I could work it out with the GM, but from strick RAW the full attack doesn't exist in the new action economy.
Thankfully I have a melee budy and summoners in my group. Flanking shouldn't be as hard as normal and I can take a move action and still attack 2-4 times depending on build.
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At first two words come to mind:
Butterfly sting- Best teamwork feat here. Pass your critical off to a x3+ weapon user and instant profit. Makes you a real team player.
Great Fortitutde- Not your strong suit and I have seen many rogues die from failed fortitude saves...almost always happens that way.
Pick a weapon like short sword or kukris and DW them. This way weapon focus and improved critical works on both weapons.
TWF is the optimal damage style.
Twist Away is the best way to avoid dying, even if you have to be staggered.
Iron Will and such are super important.
I live and die by Circling Mongoose + Canny Tumble - guaranteed sneak attacks are great.
Very much this. Your first move is Canny Tumble, if you succeed, they lose their Dex bonus and you get +2 to hit on top of that. That makes up for any 2 weapon fighting penalties, and give them -4 to AC with debilitating strike. Now you're flanking for +2 (or more with menacing and/or other feats), and with the -4 to AC you'll have no issues hitting them with two weapons. Just make sure your last attack switches to -4 for them to hit you.