I know that may seem like a silly question, an absurd request, but I turn to you experts in the forum to make a special request: there is a class similar to the Paladin, but less strong?
I recently played a Paladin and I really liked it.
I liked having a code of conduct, healing spells, but the thing I don't like at all was that it was too strong.
I've never been a power player and being in front of a character with practically immune to anything, saves roll so high (divine grace) and that could throw down the big beasts with ease (smite evil) did not make me feel good.
I liked the challenge of playing a character loyal to the rules, but at the same time to the good, which is why I ask if there is a class conceptually similar, but without all those absurd bonus and less powerful.
Yes, in a few words a weaker Paladin.
Try running a scenario with the following..
1. a whole string of neutral beasts where your smite isn't going to work.
2. a crapton of demons where you're going to have to choose where your smites go.
I would suggest a cavalier, but you don't get spellcasting with that. It's numbers aren't as high, and it is very similar to a paladin in how it plays.
Inquisitor and Warpriest can be pretty similar to Paladin. How powerful they are depends a lot on optimization.
A warpriest with the Champion of the Faith archetype may be what you are looking for.
But really, Paladin isn't very OP. Ranger and Barbarian both do about as well. What are you comparing the Paladin to?
A weaker paladin... Lawful Good Fighter? Take the Deific Obedience feat and RP following your god's code of conduct.
Edit: Ah, you enjoyed the divine spells. Hm. Celestial Bloodrager? Combat Healer Squire Paladin with really crap charisma?
I just finished playing Wrath of the Righteous AP.
You'd expect the Paladin to be the most powerful DPS player on the field. And you'd be wrong.
I was way behind the two archers, one zen archer monk, the other a tricked out Ranger, and a Monk hybrid who could deal 800 pts of damage a round to anything no matter what it's alignment. And they were all legal builds.
LazarX wrote: I just finished playing Wrath of the Righteous AP.
You'd expect the Paladin to be the most powerful DPS player on the field. And you'd be wrong.
I was way behind the two archers, one zen archer monk, the other a tricked out Ranger, and a Monk hybrid who could deal 800 pts of damage a round to anything no matter what it's alignment. And they were all legal builds.
Post build pls.
I think your paladin was terribly built? I do understand you being the worst dps when you aren't smiting, but smite evil makes the paladin highest dpr in the game
Metal Sonic wrote: LazarX wrote: I just finished playing Wrath of the Righteous AP.
You'd expect the Paladin to be the most powerful DPS player on the field. And you'd be wrong.
I was way behind the two archers, one zen archer monk, the other a tricked out Ranger, and a Monk hybrid who could deal 800 pts of damage a round to anything no matter what it's alignment. And they were all legal builds.
Post build pls. I don't have them as they weren't mine and I'm not going to bug the players and the GM for a forum post. The Paladin was pretty much a standard non-Oath of Vengeance build. (I'd already done the Vengeance Paladin gig once and wasn't interested in a repeat performance, despite it's popularity among the charop crowd here.)
Now mind you I did find other ways to be useful in the group. She was the diplomatic front of the party and the other major healer besides the Oracle. That and the summoning tricks she picked up in her mythic development.
LazarX wrote: Try running a scenario with the following..
1. a whole string of neutral beasts where your smite isn't going to work.
2. a crapton of demons where you're going to have to choose where your smites go.
This is my experience too. Up against neutral opponents and the paladin really isn't anything too special. They are able to take a lot of punishment - but they run out of swift actions very quickly in tough fights. I actually think they are balanced rather well.
My suggestion would be to stick with paladin but adopt a sword and shield (or similar) fighting style - as that will reduce the impact of the big smite attacks. Warpriest, monk or inquisitor might work too.
Pathfinder Adventure, Adventure Path, Lost Omens, PF Special Edition Subscriber
I used to think my Paladin was pretty Uber, and then I met Earthmaw. Nothing puts you quite in your place like an Elder Earth Elemental who is beating you like you owed him money. Smite doesn't work and my +1 Longsword isn't going to do jack to him. I had to make it flaming just on the hopes of getting 1d6 fire damage through on my hits. Paladins are good when fighting against evil outsiders, etc... but not so great against the average horde of minions or powerful non-evil opponents.
I second a warpriest, champion of the faith archetype. It's more or less a "weaker" paladin with some more options and better spells. Of course, in the end game, more and higher spells can make the difference, too.
Before the nerf to divine protection, it was comparable to the paladin in strength I think. But I have no experience in playing it (just building one in different levels and comparing the numbers). I played a paladin from level 5 to 16 though and I know what you mean. Of course, there were encounters vs. team non-evil, but he was very durable and did not die once until he sacrificed his life.
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