Synthesist Ability Score Question

[IonutRO]

What happens if one or more of a synthesist's ability scores are higher than their Eidolons? Say the synthesist has DEX 16 but the Eidolon has DEX 13. Does the fused form use the Synthesist's score or the Eidolon's score?

[Buri Reborn]

Go by the ability's text. They use the eidolon's physical scores while merged every time and in every circumstance.

[IonutRO]

Well, that blows.

[Buri Reborn]

IonutRO wrote:

That blows.

You know what blows?

Angry Rant:

The classic summoner is a class I really like yet it's reviled. The synthesist is one of the more vocally complained about and banned. People like you come to the forum asking if it's abilities work like the text says they do ala "like, really, man?" style. This gives those people more reason to rant against the archetype. How to deal with any perceived rough spots is easy to deal with. You lose nothing. You gain so much. Stop f#&&ing complaining.

[Claxon]

You should really think of it this way. The synthesist summoner can tank all of his physical stats and max out all of his physical stats, and get the benefit of wearing his eidolon armor with the good physical stats.

It's CoDzilla all over again.

[IonutRO]

Want to know something? I don't care.

I don't want to play a Synthesist because of how powerful it is by being good at everything or whatever other such dribble, I don't even know how to build, hell, I'm actually new to PnP gaming.

I want to play a synthesist because it looks cool, yes, you heard me, it looks COOL to be a four-armed HUMAN with your Daspara guardian angel floating over you as you punch(slam) everything six ways from sunday.

[lemeres]

IonutRO wrote:

Well, that blows.

...it might seem that way, until you take into account the fact that eidolons have scaling bonuses to strength and dexterity, so eventually you will not have higher stats than them.

Con doesn't change, but you kinda use your own anyway since you can put your summoner's hit points into the eidolon. So really, you are more using both the eidolon's AND the summoner's con AND health dice.

So besides a little pain early on, there is almost ZERO reason not to dump your strength and dexterity down to 7 (or 5) and rause your mental scores instead.

[James Risner]

2 years ago at the GenCon PVP 12th level Hard Cover book only Player vs Player tournament I run, I opened up Synthesis Summoner again. I was thinking, it can't be that good still right?

The Synthesis Summoner 10/Paladin 2 player had the:

• Best AC of all applicants
  
• Best Fortitude Save of all applicants
  
• Best Reflex Save of all applicants
  
• Best Will Save of all applicants
  
• Best Hit Point Total of all applicants
  
• Best Attack Bonus of all applicants
  
• Most Number of Attacks per round of all applicants
  
• Best Average Damage Per Round of all applicants

So for 2015, it was back to banned status.

[DeathlessOne]

James Risner wrote:

The Synthesis Summoner 10/Paladin 2 player had the:

• Best AC of all applicants
  
• Best Fortitude Save of all applicants
  
• Best Reflex Save of all applicants
  
• Best Will Save of all applicants
  
• Best Hit Point Total of all applicants
  
• Best Attack Bonus of all applicants
  
• Most Number of Attacks per round of all applicants
  
• Best Average Damage Per Round of all applicants

I'd need to see the numbers to make a honest critique.

A few that come to mind stem from the Paladin dip. Divine Grace on a Charisma based caster? That's the reason for the high saving throws. Smite evil can devastate any evil opponent in a PvP tournament and highly skew the DPR numbers.

A natural attacker tends to have the highest to hit when compared to a character that uses manufactured weapons, especially when they spec for it. They can afford to deal a little less damage per hit so that they hit more often. Let's not forget that the Summoner is a buffing class and can often increase many, if not all, of its statistics with spells. This 12th level character has the same BAB as a 12th level cleric, rogue, bard, or any other 3/4 BAB class.

Was there a buffing period allowed? I'd always advise against it in PvP tournaments. A single well placed Dismissal spell will ruin a Synthesist Summoner's day. Though the high saving throws help offset this.

[Rhatahema]

That the summoner's ability scores are replaced by the eidolon's is probably the biggest restriction on excessive multiclassing. Consider how much a martial class would have to gain by dipping synthesist if they could use the higher of the two sets of physical attributes (or simply used their own attributes, as with polymorph effects). You have to stick with the class for those attributes to scale, but they do scale. Dropping your STR/DEX down to 7 isn't mandatory, though raising them above average is admittedly wasteful.

As an aside, not every synthesist thread has to be a discussion of whether or not they're overpowered.

@IonutRO: It's a bummer if the stat replacement mechanic doesn't work with your character concept. Though, on the other hand, that mechanic does fit certain other character concepts well. Cool as the archetype is, it's a really heavy thing to pick up and play if you're new to the game.

[SheepishEidolon]

You still profit from your Dex 16 once the synthesist 'armor suit' is killed or banished. As a GM, I'd come up with a high-damage opponent or a banishing one every few battles - to make sure you don't get bored with SLAM SLAM SLAM SLAM VICTORY but have to consider alternatives. But since you invested into it, I'd usually let it work. So it depends on your GM how much you have to care about a backup plan (including personal solid physical stats).

[James Risner]

DeathlessOne wrote:

Smite evil can devastate any evil opponent

Was there a buffing period allowed?

In the tournament, all alignments are True Neutral. So nothing is Smite-able. You can be Neutral Evil and immune to Smite Evil in PVP.

2 rounds of buff, everyone gets. Beyond that, if you risk buffing instead of attacking or evading you can get off more buffs.

No one tried dismissal.