Kirin Path, Allies, and CR

[Amaurot]

A PC uses Kirin Path against an ally so as to gain free movement with the help of the team.
So questions arise,
1. Does ally counts as 'creature'?
2. Does PC has CR?

Kirin Path: While using Kirin Style against a creature you have identified using that feat, if the creature ends its turn within your threatened area, you can spend a use of your attacks of opportunity that round to move up to 5 feet times your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1).

Kirin Style: While using this style, you can spend a swift action to make a Knowledge check to identify a single creature (DC 15 + the creature’s CR for this purpose).

[Skylancer4]

The feat says :

PRD wrote:

Kirin Path (Combat)

You turn knowledge of your enemy into a flawless defense.

Prerequisites: Int 13, Kirin Strike, Kirin Style, Improved Unarmed Strike, Knowledge (arcana) 12 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 5 ranks.
Benefit: Whenever you make a Knowledge check to identify a creature, even when using Kirin Style, you can take 10 even if stress and distractions would normally prevent you from doing so. While using Kirin Style against a creature you have identified using that feat, if the creature ends its turn within your threatened area, you can spend a use of your attacks of opportunity that round to move up to 5 feet times your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1). You must end your move in a square threatened by the creature. This move does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

PRD wrote:

Kirin Style (Combat, Style)

Your study and your grace allows you to exploit your enemies' weaknesses.

Prerequisites: Improved Unarmed Strike, Knowledge (arcana) 6 ranks, Knowledge (dungeoneering, local, nature, planes, or religion) 1 rank.
Benefit: While using this style, you can spend a swift action to make a Knowledge check to identify a single creature (DC 15 + the creature's CR for this purpose). If you succeed at the check, while using this style, you gain a +2 bonus on saving throws against that creature's attacks, as well as a +2 dodge bonus to AC against that creature's attacks of opportunity. These bonuses last for as long as you use this style. If you cease combat with the creature during this time and resume it later, you can attempt the check again.

It quite obviously isn't intended to work on allies. So...

1) You don't threaten allies normally, even if they are the creature, it doesn't matter. They are allies not enemies, while being creatures of whatever race they are.
2) They do have a CR, but again, they are allies so wouldn't trigger the effects of feats intended to work on enemies that would normally be threatened by you.

[Amaurot]

I know by RAI it is not for allies, but I have no RAW material to persuade the player, as he suggests the term 'creature' includes ally (which I agree), and PC does have CR as well (which I think is debatable).

[Iannis]

I was the mentionned PC and we are not actually in a campaign but creating charactors.

Skylancer you are right, by descriptor sentence that's obviously not intended to work on allies. >But< with those benefit paragraph we could not prove it unable to use in this ways.

[Skylancer4]

Amaurot wrote:

I know by RAI it is not for allies, but I have no RAW material to persuade the player, as he suggests the term 'creature' includes ally (which I agree), and PC does have CR as well (which I think is debatable).

If that is the case, make sure said player does not gain bonuses or benefits from allies, as if he or she is threatening other players to use personal abilities, they are quite obviously not allies.

There is a fine line between "RAW" and stupidity, if the intent is clear, there is no reason to argue the rule or worry about the ruling being allowed if challenged. RAW arguments are for where there is no intent stated, where it is unclear on what intent is. This is completely not the case here.

A CR is only appropriate for an encounter or challenge, your allies aren't challenges to be overcome in the game mechanics sense. Once you start treating them as such, the game literally falls apart.

Intent is crystal clear. Rules as written, the ability is for use on opponents. Creatures you threaten (and will be attacking when possible), who will attack you (so you get bonuses against them), and which will be challenging. Your party members are allies, not opponents, those two are mutually exclusive mechanically (though under extreme circumstances there can be exceptions, mind control, possession, etc).

[SheepishEidolon]

It's not intended that way. If you want RAW arguments by all means:

Quote:

While using Kirin Style against a creature you have identified using that feat, if the creature ends its turn within your threatened area, you can spend a use of your attacks of opportunity that round to move up to 5 feet times your Intelligence modifier (minimum 1).

You don't attack your ally with Kirin Style. You don't identify your ally with Kirin Style because:

Core Rulebook about Knowledge skill wrote:

You can use this skill to identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities.

If you want to move a lot during full attack, consider Dimensional Dervish.

[Iannis]

to Sheepish Eidolon:

the knowledge check here is not mean to "identify monsters and their special powers or vulnerabilities." The action, DC and descriptor sentence are not the same.

And now we agreed that with the "if..cease combat" line, it's not usable in these way.

[SheepishEidolon]

Ok, if it's not the same, let's be petty and go totally by RAW. Kirin Style allows a 'Knowledge check to identify a single creature (DC 15 + the creature’s CR for this purpose)'. Your PC doesn't have 'Knowledge' - there is no skill or something else exactly named that way. So, umm, roll d20. Without any bonuses. Good luck against DC 15 + x.

Well, if you enjoy this kind of discussions and your GM does also, have fun. But don't be surprised when other people get aggrevated.

[Entryhazard]

PCs have a CR equal to their character level

Humanoids are identified with Knowledge(Local), while Outsiders with Knowledge(Planes)