If they're serving their god, and they are within the alignment matrix of that god, then they haven't gone too far. You could read up on the various gods and what they expect of their followers to make sure an Inquisitor is following those teachings.
For example, it's okay for an Inquisitor of Pharasma to be NE. He may do horrible, awful things to people who create undead, he might get off on it even, but that's totally cool for Pharasmites. They're beholden to their god's will and not much else. No different from a Cleric in that regard.
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Read the Wheel of Time series. Robert Jordan got the Inquisitor class right when he wrote the Whitecloaks. These guys are not Paladins. There are most certainly evil elements in their ranks, that are accepted and to some degree glorified and feared, and deemed necessary to the goals of what they assume to be the Creator's wishes.
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If the Paladin is Captian America, the Inquisitor is The Punisher. Their methods can be extremely different but both are there to get the job done. Unlike Paladins, Inquisitors believe the ends do in fact justify the means.
If it would make a Paladin of Ragathiel twitch, it's probably right in the Inquisitor's wheelhouse.
Read the Wheel of Time series. Robert Jordan got the Inquisitor class right when he wrote the Whitecloaks. These guys are not Paladins. There are most certainly evil elements in their ranks, that are accepted and to some degree glorified and feared, and deemed necessary to the goals of what they assume to be the Creator's wishes.
I would have to agree with you, the inquisitors of the whitecloaks are a great example, man i need to reread that series again
Another historical example that I think of in regards to the Inquisitor class are the Sicarii who were among the earliest recorded religious assassination groups.
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The inquisitor is an agent for the deity. As long as they are serving the interest of the deity and following its teachings they have probably not gone too far. It also matters who they are acting against. If you are acting against an enemy of the deity then you probably have more leeway.
Also if you are undercover and need to do something to maintain your cover that would probably be acceptable. If the act will further the goals and interests of the deity you are probably safe. So an inquisitor of Iomedea who is investigating a suspected demonologist could get away with lying or other dishonorable acts. That same inquisitor who lies or cheats for personal profit would be in trouble.
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Some of you guys seem a little off base.
Being an extremist is one way to play an Inquisitor, but it requires a god a little more willing to swing Neutral. You can easily be a by-the-books upfront and honest guy who just heals people and fights demons or whatever. It's all mechanics.
The Punisher example is especially weird, because Clerics can do that too, as long as they have a god who accepts that sort of behavior.
The spirit of the class can be summed up in the name and everything the word was selected to invoke.
INQUISITOR.
If that doesn't automatically conjure images of burning brands, witch trials and torture racks, you're not very big on history.
Can it be played differently? Absolutely. Is it open to interpretation like all other classes? Without a doubt. Do archetypes allow for a vast variety of takes on the class? Definitely.
But is the Inquisitor class designed to invoke images of an agent of the gods who lives in the grey area and isn't all that uncomfortable with a black hat if it accomplishes the task? I'm pretty sure the answer is yes.
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Some of you guys seem a little off base.
Being an extremist is one way to play an Inquisitor, but it requires a god a little more willing to swing Neutral. You can easily be a by-the-books upfront and honest guy who just heals people and fights demons or whatever. It's all mechanics.
The Punisher example is especially weird, because Clerics can do that too, as long as they have a god who accepts that sort of behavior.
Inquisitors by their nature seem like "problem solvers" of the faith. The kind who aren't afraid to get their hands dirty.
Clerics get channel healing, Inquisitors get Bane. That's about as clear as it gets.
When comparing Pathfinder Inquisitors to Inquisitors in real world history, I think there are two things to keep in mind:
1) Real-world Inquisitors tended to torture, execute and terrorize for reasons that turned out to be totally imaginary.
The Pathfinder Inquisitors world has things like vampires, malevolent spellcasters, evil shapeshifters, demons, devils, possessing fiends, sundry undead and abominations. Seemingly in some density. It seems that any nation, tribe or other group is going to need some kind of body like the Inquisitors unless they want to be taken over quite quickly.
2) The real-world Inquisitors generally targeted social outsiders, or fairly randomly. Pathfinder Inquisitors have things like Detect Magic, Evil, Chaos, Thoughts and Zone of Truth to ensure fairly accurate targeting.
I dare say this would have consequences for how Inquisitors are regarded by the common man as well.
3) Real-world inquisitors also belonged to an organization/order that was assigned legal authority in certain matters. THIS is something completely lacking from the class' mechanics and is largely absent from Golarion faiths as well. A class, whatever its name, does not automatically assign legal authority (and the same goes for Paladins).
Inquisitor is just the name of the class.
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I seem them as holy investigators.
Torture? There are easier ways to get answers in a RPG with magic everywhere.
And there's plenty of evil-doers for the character to hunt instead of questioning peasants with weird superstitions.
Not to mention most settings have pantheons of gods instead of a single one, so no monopoly on faith - no need for a single church to worry about losing ground to heretic cults.
I really don't believe pathfinders inquisitors are Torquemada wannabes.
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To the OP.....I think the question of wether the player character has "gone too far" relates far more to what the players at the table are comfortable with then historical example.
For example, I as a player, or GM, would be extremely uncomfortable if a character was going to physically torture a NPC for information, or to extract a confession.
As a GM, I would simply require an intimidate check. As a player I would mention how uncomfortable it would make me feel personally and ask that we gloss over any details.
So I think it depends on you and your players at the table as to what is too far.
In PFS I have an 11 level inquisitor of Iomedae. While it would be quite easy to run this character like a "white cloak" from the Robert Jordan Wheel of time series, I chose to model this PFS character after a character in Ellis Peter's series of books "The Brother Cadfael Mysteries". I modeled the character after Under Sherif Hugh Berenger of Shrewsbury.I even named the character Hugh Berenger. I thought the inquisitor character class would have the skill set required for a sherif, being able to gather information, to track people, and intimidate people out of a fight. Unfortunately, my character didn't have any opportunities to try out this character concept in PFS. It may be better saved for a home campaign.
Anyways this is an interesting discussion about the inquisitor.
Oh I was also thinking about using magic to "extract" information. Its probably much cleaner and easier. As an example of "psychic magic" messing someone up, I think an excellent example of this comes from the show Babylon 5. What
3) Real-world inquisitors also belonged to an organization/order that was assigned legal authority in certain matters. THIS is something completely lacking from the class' mechanics and is largely absent from Golarion faiths as well. A class, whatever its name, does not automatically assign legal authority (and the same goes for Paladins).When comparing Pathfinder Inquisitors to Inquisitors in real world history, I think there are two things to keep in mind:
1) Real-world Inquisitors tended to torture, execute and terrorize for reasons that turned out to be totally imaginary.
The Pathfinder Inquisitors world has things like vampires, malevolent spellcasters, evil shapeshifters, demons, devils, possessing fiends, sundry undead and abominations. Seemingly in some density. It seems that any nation, tribe or other group is going to need some kind of body like the Inquisitors unless they want to be taken over quite quickly.
2) The real-world Inquisitors generally targeted social outsiders, or fairly randomly. Pathfinder Inquisitors have things like Detect Magic, Evil, Chaos, Thoughts and Zone of Truth to ensure fairly accurate targeting.
I dare say this would have consequences for how Inquisitors are regarded by the common man as well.
The simple answer is that the inquisitor is backed by his/her church and as long as he is meeting their tenants and requirements then he has their support and protection. Churches are vastly powerful organizations and frankly they are in service to a god...
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The inquisitor is an agent for the deity. As long as they are serving the interest of the deity and following its teachings they have probably not gone too far. It also matters who they are acting against. If you are acting against an enemy of the deity then you probably have more leeway.
Also if you are undercover and need to do something to maintain your cover that would probably be acceptable. If the act will further the goals and interests of the deity you are probably safe. So an inquisitor of Iomedea who is investigating a suspected demonologist could get away with lying or other dishonorable acts. That same inquisitor who lies or cheats for personal profit would be in trouble.
This.
Inquisitors get no pass on the normal mechanical restrictions to a divine spell casting class.
They must remain within one step of their deities alignment (though tracking/changing alignment can certainly be difficult) and they most obey the tenets of their deity. They may be given a bit of leeway to accomplish a goal in the cause of their deity, but if they're doing something that isn't for that cause that would cross the line.
Iomedae doesn't care for liars. However, an undercover Iomedaen inquisitor would certainly need to lie in the course of their role. But, should do so only for the purposes required to accomplish their job for Iomedae, not for personal gain or pleasure.
It would be fine for that inquisitor to lie about why they were really in a city or what their actual job was to maintain cover. But lying to innkeeper about being a noble in the hopes of getting a better room the inn which is already full....that would cross the line.
Okay, so - long story short it is an Inquisitor of Iomedae, the party is searching for an assassin, and basically decided to wait downstairs at an Inn for someone.
They saw somebody go upstairs, one PC went and got the guard while the Inquisitor and Wizard went upstairs, acid splashed the door, and kicked it down.
At this point, on the GM side - it was a random traveler who was staying overnight, who wasn't in his room - but the bathroom.
The guard showed up, and the Inquisitor demanded that the guards help them search for the assassin. After a failed Diplomacy and Intimidate check, the guards decided to get a drink downstairs before heading back to base.
The Inquisitor drew his dagger and said "If you leave, I will kill you." To the Patrol Sgt., who promptly placed his character under arrest... Inquisitor fought back, ended with both Inquisitor and Wizard in manacles being dragged to the jail.
In this case, would an Inquisitor of Iomedae lose their powers because of the threat (and attacking) to the Patrol Sgt
Hmm, it seems....out of character? for an inquisitor of Iomede. After all, the guards are not under suspect of BEING the assassin, right?
The Inquisitor effectively threatened an officer of the law for no good reason; that could potentially cause an alignment shift (towards evil, for tyranny and ironhandedness), which could break code.However, I'm not sure if Iomede herself would revoke the inquisitors powers immediately over that situation. If the Inquisitor is still working towards the greatest good (assuming that catching this assassin is imperative to the greater good), they may still have the light of Iomede on their side.
Okay, so - long story short it is an Inquisitor of Iomedae, the party is searching for an assassin, and basically decided to wait downstairs at an Inn for someone.
They saw somebody go upstairs, one PC went and got the guard while the Inquisitor and Wizard went upstairs, acid splashed the door, and kicked it down.
At this point, on the GM side - it was a random traveler who was staying overnight, who wasn't in his room - but the bathroom.
The guard showed up, and the Inquisitor demanded that the guards help them search for the assassin. After a failed Diplomacy and Intimidate check, the guards decided to get a drink downstairs before heading back to base.
The Inquisitor drew his dagger and said "If you leave, I will kill you." To the Patrol Sgt., who promptly placed his character under arrest... Inquisitor fought back, ended with both Inquisitor and Wizard in manacles being dragged to the jail.
In this case, would an Inquisitor of Iomedae lose their powers because of the threat (and attacking) to the Patrol Sgt
Iomedae - goddess of righteous valor, justice, and honor. Nothing in the inquisitor's actions support these causes.
Inquisitors operate above many of the normal rules and conventions of their church. They have to be within one step of their god's alignment. The inquisitor's actions are neither good nor lawful. First offense and/or still Neutral, ok on the powers front. However, the actions are chaotic at best, potentially evil (threatening to murder). This behavior, if it persists, will shift their alignment at some point.
However, the inquisitor has bigger, more immediate issues: the punishments for assault, breaking and entering, destruction of property, threatening to murder a city guard, etc.
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The Inquisitor basically acted like a psychopath according to his goddess' precepts. An Inquisitor of Ragathiel might get away with that but even that's questionable.
"Help me search this place for this person I'm not even sure is here or I'll murder you." doesn't in any way serve his god's wishes. It true to the spirit of the actions of real world crusaders but if your group holds to the Inquisitor's actions should reflect his deity's precepts, this guy really @#$%^ed up.
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Iomedae basically expects her followers to be Paladins. The Clerics, the Inquisitors, the Warpriests, all of them.
You could not possibly choose a worse god to go all loose-cannon-cop-on-the-edge with.
Okay, so - long story short it is an Inquisitor of Iomedae, the party is searching for an assassin, and basically decided to wait downstairs at an Inn for someone.
They saw somebody go upstairs, one PC went and got the guard while the Inquisitor and Wizard went upstairs, acid splashed the door, and kicked it down.
At this point, on the GM side - it was a random traveler who was staying overnight, who wasn't in his room - but the bathroom.
The guard showed up, and the Inquisitor demanded that the guards help them search for the assassin. After a failed Diplomacy and Intimidate check, the guards decided to get a drink downstairs before heading back to base.
The Inquisitor drew his dagger and said "If you leave, I will kill you." To the Patrol Sgt., who promptly placed his character under arrest... Inquisitor fought back, ended with both Inquisitor and Wizard in manacles being dragged to the jail.
In this case, would an Inquisitor of Iomedae lose their powers because of the threat (and attacking) to the Patrol Sgt
Alright, now that I have the scenario I wouldn't full on revoke his powers, but maybe have him lose them for a day. Or have certain powers not work.
He basically just went completely psycho as an agent of a god who's decidedly against that sort of thing. I would say threatening the guards in the manner he did is very much a chaotic evil act. Iomedae would probably wish him to serve whatever the required sentence in jail is, and do something for the community, as well as apologize to the guards he threatened as penance for his actions. Despite being an Inquisitor, it is not free reign to harass or threaten lawful entities when you have failed to demonstrate probably cause to them.
Tell the player this, the guards didn't help you because you failed to be convincing to them. They don't know you, nor are they aware of you as an important figure. You essentially demanded them to do things with zero proof or convincing ability, and then went pyscho about it. That is not action that Iomedae would approve.
After giving him the above penance I mentioned, I would tell him that another act like that would cause him to fall.
I think there were mistakes made on both parts. First of all it should not require a diplomacy or intimidate roll to get the city watch to investigate criminal activity. That is their job. Do you require a similar roll when people want to purchase something from a merchant? Also did the inquisitor identify himself and who he served? Did the guards at least check to see what was going on, or did they just blow the party off and ignore them? The guards should have at the very least checked to see what was going on before deciding to get a drink.
From the sound of things the inquisitor is involved in an activity Iomedae would approve of (The search for the assassin). He is actually keeping to the teachings of Iomedae by sending for the guard, so far so good. Now the guard completely blows him off and ignores his request for assistance in locating the assassin. Now the inquisitor tries to get the guard to stay and help, but threatens his life. The threat sounds pretty juvenile especially coming from someone who is supposed to be very good at intimidating. This could be due to the fact that while the character is good at intimidating the player probably is not. Most inquisitors should be able to come up with a better threat than “if you leave, I will kill you”. When it comes to social skills I usually cut the player some slack if the character has a good roll in the relevant skill.
So the inquisitor is on a mission that is serving the interest of his deity. He actually went out of his way to follow the law. Many inquisitors would have just done what was necessary and then dealt with the fallout after it was over. When the guards don’t act the way he wants them to he goes overboard. Attacking the guards is not something that Iomedae would really approve of so that counts against him. Did the inquisitor attack first; also did he actually try and kill the guards? The inquisitor at this point should be getting a warning that his behavior is not acceptable. While the actions of the inquisitor were rash and ill conceived, I don’t think they are enough to cause an alignment change. I also would not consider the inquisitor to have become corrupted. It sounds like the player may be trying to role play a big bad scary guy, but does not really know how. What I would do is have the inquisitors sword become rusted and corroded, and give the player some tips and advice on how to use intimidate.