I was giving the Psychic class a closer look and wondered if something was valid, or had a catch I was just missing. Psychic spells replace somatic components with emotion components, so they have no chance of spell failure due to armor. The Psychic class has no armor proficiency, but if they were equipped in masterwork parade or studded leather, and a masterwork light shield or buckler, they should be able to do so with no drawback aside from the price tag, right? For that matter, assuming the Psychic had heavy armor and shield proficiency (be it from feats, multiclassing, or something else) and a decent strength, they should be able to function in full plate with a heavy shield, correct?
Absolutely correct. Armor up! ^_^
(If you want to go deeper, a single fighter level also gets you Tower Shield Proficiency on top of all that.)
I was considering that, and also the opposite, splashing one level of psycic on a full attack bonus martial character to get some utility magic, but honestly have not thought it through fully. Still, the idea of a full 9 level offensive caster in real armor without having to mess with mithril and darkleaf cloth (or careful building around domains I guess) is making me want to pay this class a bit more attention than I originally expected.
Heck, if I look through the spell list and don't find many things that need ranged touch attacks, it may even be worth going with full plate without the proficiency after you get overland flight.
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Don't forget that wearing full plate without proficiency means the armor check penalty also apply to your initiative check.
Could you please cite the relevant rule that supports this?
I believe this is what he's speaking of initiative is a dex based skill check so yep it would apply.
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I believe this is what he's speaking of initiative is a dex based skill check so yep it would apply.
Looks like inititive is an DEX ability check to me. Unfortunately, those still apply when you are non-proficent. Good catch.
Psychic with a one-level dip in fighter might find the armor proficiencies amusing. It's not like you need to move around a whole hell of a lot to wreck face as a psychic.Or you could be a charisma discipline Psychic and go 2 into Paladin.
Hmm, would that be worth putting you a full spell level behind most full casters...on the other hand, it would get all the weapon and armor proficiency you could want, and it feels like there should be a build where a mutation mind with the abomination discipline could get rather scary in combat, Mutation Mind for offense and reach, abomination for DR and SR. Not to mention a paladin with an abomination trapped in her could be interesting to role play.
In 3pp, the psion was always like this. and without the problems that psychic components do to your concentration checks.
It's interesting, but it's not game breaking. You're either giving up caster levels or several feats.
why not just go without proficiency? You're not making attack rolls anyway so the penalty to that doesn't matter.
why not just go without proficiency? You're not making attack rolls anyway so the penalty to that doesn't matter.
Maybe it is just me, but psycic doesn't seem to get as many toys*, like school skills, bloodline powers, witch hexes, or arcanist exploits as the other unarmored casters, so it seems like it would need something at low levels to stay relevent in combat. At later levels, yeah, It may honestly be worth just taking the hit to initiative.
*ok, they do get a lot of toys as the psycic skill unlocks, but not combat relevent. Amplifications boost existing spells, they only make spells better, not giving you an alternative, and the pool is pretty small to start with.
I know this is a crazy question, but why not just take Armor Proficiency feats. I mean outside of a few metamagic (which you could get rods for), 9 level casters don't really need most of their feats.
Not crazy at all, and something I at least am still considering. Spell penetration, regular and improved, plus school focuses to up DCs can eat quite a few feats up though, and the psychic isn't just all enchantment like I expected. Heck, mind thrust is a damage dealing DIVINATION.
Not crazy at all, and something I at least am still considering. Spell penetration, regular and improved, plus school focuses to up DCs can eat quite a few feats up though, and the psychic isn't just all enchantment like I expected. Heck, mind thrust is a damage dealing DIVINATION.
Don't worry too much about school focuses to boost DCs. Psychic gets a couple options for that- you can spend points from your phrenic pool and/or use the DC boosting disciplines like Abomination and Psychedelia.
Not crazy at all, and something I at least am still considering. Spell penetration, regular and improved, plus school focuses to up DCs can eat quite a few feats up though, and the psychic isn't just all enchantment like I expected. Heck, mind thrust is a damage dealing DIVINATION.Don't worry too much about school focuses to boost DCs. Psychic gets a couple options for that- you can spend points from your phrenic pool and/or use the DC boosting disciplines like Abomination and Psychedelia.
Aww, but I want to be adding +7 to the save DCs...
or, wait, do untyped bonuses like these not stack?
Not crazy at all, and something I at least am still considering. Spell penetration, regular and improved, plus school focuses to up DCs can eat quite a few feats up though, and the psychic isn't just all enchantment like I expected. Heck, mind thrust is a damage dealing DIVINATION.Don't worry too much about school focuses to boost DCs. Psychic gets a couple options for that- you can spend points from your phrenic pool and/or use the DC boosting disciplines like Abomination and Psychedelia.Aww, but I want to be adding +7 to the save DCs...
or, wait, do untyped bonuses like these not stack?
They do stack, don't worry.
Whew.
This thread is starting to make me think that the amplifications, of all things, are a bigger deal than I first gave them credit for. They let you take spells further than most other classes can, albeit from a very limited power pool.
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I think this trick works-- if you're a Charisma-fueled Psychic, you can take Noble Scion of War to base your initiative on Charisma. Then the armor check penalty should cease to apply.
The Paladin 2 / Disciple of Pain Psychic X build probably works well, as long as you're at peace with losing a spell level. You'd want to pick up natural attacks, Spirited Charge, or something else to make up for the slow BAB progression. The Mutation Mind archetype only gives up a single amplification in exchange for access to a few cool combat boosts, including the ability to become Huge-sized all the time at level 11 which is pretty neat.
I think this trick works-- if you're a Charisma-fueled Psychic, you can take Noble Scion of War to base your initiative on Charisma. Then the armor check penalty should cease to apply.
The Paladin 2 / Disciple of Pain Psychic X build probably works well, as long as you're at peace with losing a spell level. You'd want to pick up natural attacks, Spirited Charge, or something else to make up for the slow BAB progression. The Mutation Mind archetype only gives up a single amplification in exchange for access to a few cool combat boosts, including the ability to become Huge-sized all the time at level 11 which is pretty neat.
Not huge sized all the time, just while physical mutation is up, for 1 minute per level as a swift action. But by level 11, that is probably enough minutes for most of your fights for the day and maybe to lift the party over a wall or something.
As for the Noble Scion of War...darn it I had just read that feat in the Hell's Rebel's PG (house Tanessen)...I am a little iffy on if that changes what kind of check it is or just lets you use the different stat in place while keeping it the same kind of check, may vary by DM, but it is a brilliant idea regardless, even if it "only" makes you less MAD.
I think this trick works-- if you're a Charisma-fueled Psychic, you can take Noble Scion of War to base your initiative on Charisma. Then the armor check penalty should cease to apply.
You're not entirely wrong, but worth pointing out this would also kill your Reflex save.
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I think this trick works-- if you're a Charisma-fueled Psychic, you can take Noble Scion of War to base your initiative on Charisma. Then the armor check penalty should cease to apply.You're not entirely wrong, but worth pointing out this would also kill your Reflex save.
Fair, though if you do the 2 level dip in Pally you really won't care with your high CHA