An important note: If two archetypes alter different subsections of the same class feature, such as changing two different bardic performances or swapping out two different levels of magus arcana, they're compatible. However, those subsection changes will still be incompatible with changes that change the main feature. So an option that adds to the list of magus arcana the magus can take is incompatible with an archetype that replaces the arcana gained at level 3.
I have always wondered if any modification to skills was meant to be covered under "class features", as James Risner says, despite being in a distinct section from class features in every class description. I've assumed yes, but then it comes down to either any change in skills or only if both alter the same skill. Pain in the butt really.
There's a FAQ that says class skill changes are part of the deal for archetypes. So you can't pick two archetypes that both add class skills.
That's what I expected, but I don't see it in the FAQ. I see something about counting as having an ability, and another about not counting as having an ability, but nothing regarding skills being a class feature.
Dual cursed would be compatible with an archetype that replaces bonus spell: 8th, but not with an archetype that somehow modified, say, the progression of the bonus spells (such as delaying them by a level or something)
An archetype that replaces, say, the revelation gained at 3rd level would be compatible with an archetype that replaces the revelation gained at 7th level, but would not be compatible with an archetype that, say, added a revelation to the list of revelations available for that oracle to take.
That's what I expected, but I don't see it in the FAQ. I see something about counting as having an ability, and another about not counting as having an ability, but nothing regarding skills being a class feature.
This is the FAQ.
Archetype Stacking and Altering: What exactly counts as altering a class feature for the purpose of stacking archetypes?
In general, if a class feature grants multiple subfeatures, it’s OK to take two archetypes that only change two separate subfeatures. This includes two bard archetypes that alter or replace different bardic performances (even though bardic performance is technically a single class feature) or two fighter archetypes that replace the weapon training gained at different levels (sometimes referred to as “weapon training I, II, III, or IV”) even though those all fall under the class feature weapon training. However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class. As always, individual GMs should feel free to houserule to allow small overlaps on a case by case basis, but the underlying rule exists due to the unpredictability of combining these changes.
Look at the bold, italicized portion. It's pretty easy to miss in all that verbiage.
Nothing wrong with a bit of "Archetype Tetris" fun; you may have to get things house-ruled in a home game with GM approval though.
That being said, I think the Black-blooded part is supposed to alter the curse feature, but I could be mistaken.
So the Black blooded alters the whole relevation feature? In the d20pfsrd chart, it says it doesnt. Is it wrong?This is the FAQ.
Archetype Stacking and Altering: What exactly counts as altering a class feature for the purpose of stacking archetypes?
...However, if something alters the way the parent class feature works, such as a mime archetype that makes all bardic performances completely silent, with only visual components instead of auditory, you can’t take that archetype with an archetype that alters or replaces any of the sub-features. This even applies for something as small as adding 1 extra round of bardic performance each day, adding an additional bonus feat to the list of bonus feats you can select, or adding an additional class skill to the class....
The bold part is the question. The bold, italicized part was the part ErichAD was asking about. I wasn't addressing your question at all.
Look at the bold, italicized portion. It's pretty easy to miss in all that verbiage.
Thanks a bunch
Thanks a bunchLook at the bold, italicized portion. It's pretty easy to miss in all that verbiage.
You are welcome. The funny thing is that, at least as I recall, the skills question was the thing that started that whole rules debate. Then the FAQ came out and it only had that one buried mention of skills.
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So the Black blooded alters the whole relevation feature? In the d20pfsrd chart, it says it doesnt. Is it wrong?
Yes, frequently wrong.
Please don't go by the d20pfsrd chart. I've submitted alterations to some of the problems I've detected to align it's charts. But it used a char-op perspective on what alters. Which in general is "only thing things that say this alters that" and not the things that alter, add, modify, or change.
Dual Cursed Oracle modifies:
Curse: A dual-cursed oracle must choose two curses at 1st level.
bonus spells at these levels: ill omen (2nd), oracle’s burden (4th), bestow curse (6th).
mystery revelations