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I'm leaning toward a natural attack based character, and intend to take Steadfast Personalty to remedy the will save penalty from Cross-blooded drawback and power attack at level 3.
In addition, I'd like to know the pro and con of these two options. Anything other information on how to make a good natural attack character will be appreciated as well.
Thanks :)
One has a strength penalty and the other a constitution penalty.
I'm not sure which would work better, neither is ideal. At least with the Tengu it would be easier to make up for the effective -4 Will save for going cross blooded.
why are you going crossblooded? And Rageshaper on classes that have natural attacks already?
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The Nagaji are also an interesting option. I would probably go for the Kitsune though (call me biased, but Kitsune are just plain awesome)
However, the Tengu are automatically proficient with all swords. Tough (they might make better Swashbucklers)
My best advice is not to go for the most optimal character ever, but just whatever you feel would be a fun concept; sub-optimal characters usually provide the most room for creativity.
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The Nagaji are also an interesting option. I would probably go for the Kitsune though (call me biased, but Kitsune are just plain awesome)
However, the Tengu are automatically proficient with all swords. Tough (they might make better Swashbucklers)
My best advice is not to go for the most optimal character ever, but just whatever you feel would be a fun concept; sub-optimal characters usually provide the most room for creativity.
I'm interest in making a nagaji bloodrager. What would you suggest for the build?
So
1) Rageshaper wont enhance your natural attacks from your race, only from polymorph spells
2) Tengu have a con penalty and Kitsune have a strength penalty, both are not good choices
3) Why are you going crossblooded? You haven't mentioned any bloodlines yet
4) Ultimately, play what you want but the things you have laid out so far are not optimized choices. This is fine, but just wanted to make sure you were aware.
Human, Half-Orc, or Half-Elf would be some of the best choices since you can get a bonus to strength and no penalties. Half-Orc would allow you to choose Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored, which would cancel out the penalty for Crossblooded, if you were truly set on that.
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So
1) Rageshaper wont enhance your natural attacks from your race, only from polymorph spells
2) Tengu have a con penalty and Kitsune have a strength penalty, both are not good choices
3) Why are you going crossblooded? You haven't mentioned any bloodlines yet
4) Ultimately, play what you want but the things you have laid out so far are not optimized choices. This is fine, but just wanted to make sure you were aware.Human, Half-Orc, or Half-Elf would be some of the best choices since you can get a bonus to strength and no penalties. Half-Orc would allow you to choose Sacred Tattoo and Fate's Favored, which would cancel out the penalty for Crossblooded, if you were truly set on that.
1.) From Bestial Aspect (Su)
If the rageshaper's bloodrage powers already grant natural attacks or alternate modes of movement, then the bonuses granted by bestial aspect also apply to these bloodrage powers.
As long as I take Abyssal or Draconic, this abilities should benefit me greatly (I hope)
2.) Aye, it's not a good choice but I'd like to pick one of the two races to overcome its stat penalty.
3.) I'd like to go Abyssal/Destined, Draconic/Destine, or Abyssal/Arcane atm.
4.) Yes, I'm aware of my sub-optimal character though my reason for taking either one of them is as stated on answer#2
blackbloodtroll built a cross-blooded Kitsune Bloodrager that we have been discussing. It is Abyssal/Destined.
It uses the Destined 4th level bloodline power in combination with a trait to make up for the -4 effective Will save you get from cross-blooded. Although I don't like cross-blooded, I have to admit that build has done a good job of making up for the weaknesses of the archetype.
Otherwise the Tengu bonus to Wis would help a lot in making up for the Will save penalty. There the problem would be surviving coming out of your bloodrage since you probably will not have high enough Con to qualify for Raging Vitality.
1.) From Bestial Aspect (Su)If the rageshaper's bloodrage powers already grant natural attacks or alternate modes of movement, then the bonuses granted by bestial aspect also apply to these bloodrage powers.
As long as I take Abyssal or Draconic, this abilities should benefit me greatly (I hope)
2.) Aye, it's not a good choice but I'd like to pick one of the two races to overcome its stat penalty.
3.) I'd like to go Abyssal/Destined, Draconic/Destine, or Abyssal/Arcane atm.
4.) Yes, I'm aware of my sub-optimal character though my reason for taking either one of them is as stated on answer#2
Eh, sorry. I shouldn't have said only form polymorph spells. I hadn't originally included that in most post, but thought saying "not from race" made it unclear what sources it worked from so I added the bit about polymorph. You are right that things from bloodlines or bloodrage powers would work.
As far as the other bit, most people when the come to advice forum are looking to min-max so I felt it a good idea to point out that options you were choosing were suboptimal. Which is fine because that's what you want, and I've made those sorts of decisions before myself.
For bloodlines since you're going crossblooded, I would highly recommend Abyssal & Arcane.
Arcane Bloodrage (Sp): At 4th level, when entering a bloodrage you can choose one of the following spells and apply its effects to yourself: blur, protection from arrows, resist energy (choose one energy type), or spider climb. These effects last for as long as you continue bloodraging, regardless of the spell's normal duration.
Greater Arcane Bloodrage (Sp): At 8th level, when entering a bloodrage, you can choose to apply the effects of either displacement or haste to yourself. This is in addition to arcane bloodrage, and otherwise works as that ability.
These are what you want from arcane. Use Abyssal to pick up Claws, Demonic bulk, and Abyssal Bloodrage. If either kitsune or tengu have a bite or extra natural attack I would choose that race. While the rager shaper ability can only affect 1 natural attack type, having more natural attacks will complement your attack style. Also, I'm pretty sure a bonus feat you can choose from Arcane is Iron Will, which will also negate the penalty from cross-blooded.
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I'm interest in making a nagaji bloodrager. What would you suggest for the build?The Nagaji are also an interesting option. I would probably go for the Kitsune though (call me biased, but Kitsune are just plain awesome)
However, the Tengu are automatically proficient with all swords. Tough (they might make better Swashbucklers)
My best advice is not to go for the most optimal character ever, but just whatever you feel would be a fun concept; sub-optimal characters usually provide the most room for creativity.
I am probably not the best person to ask for advice for single-class builds, my expertise is in Multiclassing.
Oh and trust me, you really want to negate that penalty from Cross-blooded. I played a Primalist Arcane Bloodrager in a campaign that was very good at wrecking face. Since I could avoid a majority of attacks and deal a ton of damage I was always first into a room. One of which happened to have a confusion trap. Where I failed my save. Standing next to our spell casters. Luckily for the group the managed to trap me in the room with a illusion spell that I failed the saved against while they ran out before I could kill them all. I did however kill our Hunter's animal companion and the spellcaster's would have been next (but confusion stipulates that you attack whoever last attacked you so the animal companion was basically sacrificed to save the caster. The Hunter had raise animal companion prepared so it wasn't a huge problem.
But it could have gone very poorly and ended up a TPK.
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Oh and trust me, you really want to negate that penalty from Cross-blooded. I played a Primalist Arcane Bloodrager in a campaign that was very good at wrecking face. Since I could avoid a majority of attacks and deal a ton of damage I was always first into a room. One of which happened to have a confusion trap. Where I failed my save. Standing next to our spell casters. Luckily for the group the managed to trap me in the room with a illusion spell that I failed the saved against while they ran out before I could kill them all. I did however kill our Hunter's animal companion and the spellcaster's would have been next (but confusion stipulates that you attack whoever last attacked you so the animal companion was basically sacrificed to save the caster. The Hunter had raise animal companion prepared so it wasn't a huge problem.
But it could have gone very poorly and ended up a TPK.
Hmm...The only thing I can think on top of my head right now is making a stat in such fashion that wis at 10 with charisma around 16 or so before taking Steadfast Personalty as the feat with Irrepressible as a trait.
In theory, this should net me 3 Will Save + 3 Will Save against Charm and Compulsion Spell to offset Cross-blooded's -4 Will Penalty.
Steadfast Personalty and Irrepressible don't stack as both are replacing wis with cha for the save.
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Steadfast Personalty and Irrepressible don't stack as both are replacing wis with cha for the save.
Steadfast Personalty:
Benefit: Add your Charisma modifier instead of your Wisdom bonus on Will saves. If you have a Wisdom penalty, you must apply both your Wisdom penalty and your Charisma modifier.
Irrepressible:
You can use your Charisma modifier in place of your Wisdom modifier when attempting Will saving throws against charm and compulsion effects.
From the look of it, Steadfast Personalty adds will save while Irrepressible replace Wis mod with Cha mod for will save vs charm and compulsion spell.
Since my Wis is 10 = +0 mod, I should gain +3 from Steadfast and +3 from Irrepressible which use my cha mod instead of wis mod.
Nope, since both are using charisma it doesn't stack.
Also, do you know what you do with your wisdom modifier on a will save? You add it to your base will save. So using cha in place of wis is the same as add your cha instead of adding your wis.
And back to the first point, as both are dealing with cha they wont stack.
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Nope, since both are using charisma it doesn't stack.
Also, do you know what you do with your wisdom modifier on a will save? You add it to your base will save. So using cha in place of wis is the same as add your cha instead of adding your wis.
And back to the first point, as both are dealing with cha they wont stack.
I see. If that is the case...Does Iron Will Feat stack with Irrepressible Trait?