So I was wondering, how exactly does Fast Learner work?
1)
Lets you take any two of:
a. +1 HP
b. +1 Skill rank
c. Alternate Favored Class Bonus
2)
Lets you take one of:
a. +1 HP and +1 Skill rank
b. Alternate Favored Class Bonus
It looks kinda like 2, but I'd like to clarify. Thanks!
I believe the official answer is option 2. However, I'd recommend using option 1 if you are playing in a home game. Option 2 is roughly like a less useful version of toughness. Option 1 at least puts it on par.
(I assume that by "Favored Class Bonus" you mean "race-specific choice".)
StabbittyDoom wrote: I believe the official answer is option 2. However, I'd recommend using option 1 if you are playing in a home game. Option 2 is roughly like a less useful version of toughness. Option 1 at least puts it on par.
(I assume that by "Favored Class Bonus" you mean "race-specific choice".)
Yeah. Thanks for the clarification. :)
It is Option One, if you look at Pg. 9 of ARG, Favored Class Options: "Each of these replaces the normal reward for having a level in a favored class - either gaining 1 extra hit point or 1 extra skill rank each time a member of that race takes a level in that class."
Yes it has been argued to death that it is option two if you look only at the feat and the and/or statements, and as much as one may argue it's two, lets look at it this way, with out feat, I have option of 1 hit point, or 1 skill point, or 1 favored class option.
Going with feat (option two) I get 1 hit point and 1 skill point or 1 favored class option, which makes the feat useless if your only taking favored class options. Again the And/Or looking at feat alone, which given the page 9 reference, should be pick 2 of 3 options. Option Two is like give me a dollar and I'll give you a slice of pie, give me two dollars and I will still give you a single slice of pie.
Scrapper wrote: ... Disagree.
The feat text is pretty clear, and your basis for disregarding that seems to be that the feat isn't useful to all characters; specifically, those that choose the alternate favoured class bonus.
MOST feats aren't useful to all characters, and characters who do not benefit may therefore be wise to not choose that feat. This does not provide any basis for simply reinterpreting the feat so that it becomes beneficial.
Allowing any two of the three options would make a perfectly fine house rule, but by my interpretation it looks pretty clear that that isn't the actual rule.
Sorry for double posting, I wanted to add an additional reference to the above post but left it too long to edit it.
As far as I'm aware there hasn't been a FAQ entry on this (despite it being marked as "answered in faq" in at least one thread), but there is a post from a designer agreeing with the option 2 interpretation.
:)
Option #2, unfortunately.
Nefreet wrote: Option #2, unfortunately. This one.
StabbittyDoom wrote: Option 2 is roughly like a less useful version of toughness. Option 1 at least puts it on par.
Why would this be just on par than toughness? I guess for levels 1 and 2 toughness gives you a 1-2 more HP.. But after that you get the same amount of HP out of it, Plus a skill point. That just plain seems more useful than toughness to me.
Excluding of course characteres who want the special class bonus only.
Baring like level 1 and 2 only games.
Zwordsman wrote: StabbittyDoom wrote: Option 2 is roughly like a less useful version of toughness. Option 1 at least puts it on par.
Why would this be just on par than toughness? I guess for levels 1 and 2 toughness gives you a 1-2 more HP.. But after that you get the same amount of HP out of it, Plus a skill point. That just plain seems more useful than toughness to me.
Excluding of course characteres who want the special class bonus only.
Baring like level 1 and 2 only games. You're misunderstanding what the feat does.
Example: You were already investing your favored class bonus in skill ranks. You take this feat and you gain only HP.
If you take toughness, you gain the same amount of HP and your skill ranks are still the same.
If you are, for some reason, investing your favored class bonuses in HP, then the benefit is that you get to grab a number of skill ranks equal to your level, but then, you could have just invested in skill ranks and then taken toughness, which would have given you more HP at the start.
Ah I see.
Its my bias then.
its maximizing what you already have vs getting more stuff to make up to it. Effectively the exact same in the situation where your not getting the class specifics.
So that is probably my effiency bias there.. Rather unitlize something already functioning (getting to chose both) rather than get a new attachment (toughness) even if its effectively the same outcome it feels more efficient for my personality.
Yes the ruling is #2, and yes it basically puts it on par with Toughness in terms of benefit. But! You can take both for even more hp if that's what you want.
So if you take this and the Finding Haleen trait, you could be getting +2 HP/level and +2 skills/level?
Yes, though in most cases methinks you'd be better off combining Finding Haleen with a racial favored class bonus.
kyrt-ryder wrote: Yes, though in most cases methinks you'd be better off combining Finding Haleen with a racial favored class bonus. Maybe. Though 2 HP/level is the difference between Cleric HD and Barbarian HD, and the skills/level are also the difference between Cleric skills/level and Barbarian skills/level. Cleric has pretty bad alternate favored class bonuses, anyways. Then you could be a skilled, tough Cleric who dumped INT. Or a skilled, even tougher Fighter with a dumped INT.
My Self wrote: So if you take this and the Finding Haleen trait, you could be getting +2 HP/level and +2 skills/level? Arguably, that trait should not be allowed for anything other than the Legacy of Fire Campaign. It is a campaign trait, and an overpowered one at that.
Is it really overpowered? Or is Fast Learner just horribly underpowered and Toughness slightly underpowered.
[I think in the middle really. Fast Learner and Toughness ARE underpowered, but Finding Haleen is OP for a trait but would be fair for a feat.]
kyrt-ryder wrote: Is it really overpowered? Or is Fast Learner just horribly underpowered and Toughness slightly underpowered.
[I think in the middle really. Fast Learner and Toughness ARE underpowered, but Finding Haleen is OP for a trait but would be fair for a feat.]
I would agree with that. Toughness and Fast Learner are underpowered feats, and Finding Haleen is an overpowered trait. But if instead Finding Haleen were a feat, I would think it appropriately powerful. As it sits none of my characters ever take toughness or fast learner, because as long as you can make it through a fight you usually have time to top off before the next. It's really only ever a problem at low levels when there is a more significant threat of actually dying in combat from a lucky crit or a string of lucky hits.
If I get Fast Learner in lv.5，can I get the first 4 level's bonus?
陳國光CHEN wrote: If I get Fast Learner in lv.5，can I get the first 4 level's bonus? Yes. Feat gains are retroactive.
if I have fast learner and nemesis (story feat) could I take the +1 HP, +1 skill point and the class bonus?
Zepheri wrote: if I have fast learner and nemesis (story feat) could I take the +1 HP, +1 skill point and the class bonus? You could but giving up 2 feats to get that is probably not worth it. A lot of the alternative FCB are pretty good and getting an extra sill point per level can make the difference between being able to do more out of combat. So I can see the value of Nemesis, but the extra HP for fast learner (or Toughness) is not worth losing an additional feat.
Something that can be done, should not be done.
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