I went out on a limb during character creation and decided I would invest in UMD. However three levels in, I have still yet to use it. It isn't a class skill for my oracle, but he does have a 16 charisma and max ranks. Is this a skill that you have to just give a few levels to make worth while? What are ways you have used UMD in a meaningful way in PFS play?
One example I can think of is a wand of shield, but this would only be useful if I had unlimited time to play with the wand right before a combat to get it to work. Thoughts?
|
A better use is a wand of mage armor. Because it lasts 1 hour, you can use it out of combat and just keep rolling until you get either a success or a 1. If you have one of these, share with the monks and other unarmored characters in your party.
Another way I have used UMD is with a wand of scorching ray on a rogue. That rogue also has a wand of invisibility, which has been useful for scouting, but less useful in combat.
Last week, the group I was GMing for failed to identify a magic item (two of them had high Spellcraft checks, but they both rolled really low). So they activated it blindly using UMD. It didn't tell them what the item was, but they got to benefit from the secondary (command word) power. That was pretty cool.
|
| 3 people marked this as a favorite. |
UMD, is an amazingly good and useful skill, but IMO it requires a major investment. My Oradin (Oracle Paladin) has it with a plus +30 (skill focus, class skill, max ranks, high cha, @ level 12). I can cast almost any spell from a scroll (even if I need to emulate ability scores), but until +19 it's at best a sketchy go. (Most people never bother going above +19, since you can then activate wands). I've used it one my paladin for a while to use wands of shield as well as the occasional emergency scroll like teleport. The fact is at this point my UMD check is a sure thing while my CL is not. (Really high druid only spells are the only ones that would give the potential for trouble at this point)
There are a couple items out there that can help if you really want UMD to scale faster. Pink and Green Sphere (Cracked) for 200gp gives a +1 competence bonus to a CHA skill, The Magenta Prism (Cracked) gives a +2 competence bonus to a skill that can be changed daily (doesn't stack with the Pink and Green Sphere). Masterwork tools give a +2 circumstance for 50gp for a single aspect of the skill. Circlet of Persuasion gives a +3 competence bonus to CHA based checks for 4500gp (again doesn't stack with the Ioun Stones). And obviously the headband of Inspired Wisdom. There's probably some more out there.
At low level yes, you can use UMD but Natural 1's are really bad and it may take multiple tries to get something to work.
|
|
Also, if you are really looking to power UMD the trait Dangerously Curious gives a +1 and make UMD a class skill. So the feat extra traits is actually better than Skill Focus at low level, if you don't already have a magic trait. Otherwise the feat skill focus gives a +3 bonus that scales to +6 at 10 ranks.
|
can cast almost any spell from a scroll (even if I need to emulate ability scores)
You'd only need to do that for... what spells? Charisma lets you tell the scroll you're pretty enough to be a sorcerer for arcane spells, bard for.. well bard spells, oracle for cleric spells.. its kind of one stop shopping for the ability score.
|
|
I've kind of made a habit of building rogues with UMD (my ratfolk rogue [counterfeit mage] 6 currently has a UMD of +20). Putting ranks in UMD can be useful for when the primary healer / wand activator goes down, though it is always useful to carry a backup wand when the inevitable happens and you shut down a wand. My -3 rogue went and dropped about 20-30,000 on a bunch of wands and a circlet of persuasion and played arcane support through Eyes. Buying that wand of flame strike was pretty handy, after getting torn up by a caster, she bought it so she could hang back and ready to toss flame strikes at casters when they started to cast (it stopped a creeping doom, and did some other good, so I'm chocking it up as a win).
|
|
Every now and then one runs into a group where nobody has CLW on their class list. UMD can save the party.
Once you can get it to 19 you can use wands with no chance of failure. For a Dex based character you can get there by level 8 or so (class skill, Circlet of Persuasion). Once you get to that point you have LOTS of options.
But its definitely a skill that you want to focus in and not just dip if you can possibly afford the skill points.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
Mage armor: For unarmored types like monks and shapeshifters. For low level characters rocking studded leather, animal companions until they get good armor, animal companions like snakes that can't get good armor, and everyone else if you hear the words "shadow" "darkness" or "life sucking"
Vanish: Come on. You know you're not going to last that long before ganking anyone. Why pay extra for invisibility rounds you won't use?
Bless weapon: because we're not getting +5 weapons on this level cap...
False life: because its cheaper than buying back a real one.
Bears endurance: Given how expensive double stat belts are your melee types probably have either str or dex belts. At 2 hp per level at higher levels its the best insta heal spell (for a few minutes anyway) and gives you another 4 points of bleed out time if that doesn't put them in the positives.
Abundant ammunition: Because otherwise killing that golem will kill your rating with the church of abadar.
Monkeyfish: Need climb? need swim? Need monkeyfish
Cure light wounds: Hit points. Hard to play without them.
Infernal healing: the dark side is tastey. And cost effective.
You'll notice these are mostly 1st and maybe second level spells.. thats because they're waaay too expensive as they get higher at 50 charges. Scrolls are twice as expensive, but if you're only going to need 10 of them in your career the scrolls still win out (and come on an easy payment plan)
One thing to remember is that not everything you buy has to be for you: If you're a life oracle that finds yourself waiting around while everyone else is getting hurt, pick up a wand of bless weapon and tap the fighters weapon with it. If you cant cast mage armor yourself, carry the wand and hand it to the wizard or the prettiest person in the party. If you roll a 1 on your check , pass it around the party like a flay leaf cigar. (its probably already smoking from your 5 attempts to activate it before getting that 1...)
Two spring loaded wrists sheaths are a good idea, but you can draw a wand on the move if you have to
|
|
Vanish: Come on. You know you're not going to last that long before ganking anyone. Why pay extra for invisibility rounds you won't use?
Doesn't work. It is a 1st-level wand. The spell lasts 1 round.
Round 1:
Standard action: use the wand. Turn invisible.
Move action: whatever you want.
Round 2:
Start of your turn: turn visible.
Standard action: "oops, I thought I would be invisible."
|
|
Vanish: Come on. You know you're not going to last that long before ganking anyone. Why pay extra for invisibility rounds you won't use?Doesn't work. It is a 1st-level wand. The spell lasts 1 round.
Round 1:
Standard action: use the wand. Turn invisible.
Move action: whatever you want.Round 2:
Start of your turn: turn visible.
Standard action: "oops, I thought I would be invisible."
Hand wand to mr wizard. Mr wizard pokes you in the butt. You gank something.
Poor mans dimension door: Wand self: no aoo, no concentration check. Walk to back of party where its safe.
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
My 11th Life Oracle does more than just heal from time to time, sometimes he uses his UMD of +27 to cast scrolls like:
Paladin Scroll of Litany of Rightousness, DC 27 to activate. Paladin wants to smite the creature and kill it in the same round? I can help with that.
Paladin scroll of Holy Sword, DC 34 to activate, no one in the group has a Holy Avenger, this will fix that for like 14 rounds.
Wizard scroll of Animal Growth, DC 29 to activate, it grows an animal, its great!
Wizard scroll of Wall of Force, DC 29 to activate, not a lot of wizards prepare this spell but it comes up from time to time and can be really useful.
Lots of great uses for UMD if you are willing to spend some money on scrolls. He has plenty more scrolls that this, these are just a couple of my favorite I guess.
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
While its not quite UMD, Channel the gift is an amazing wand if you like to prebuff the party before going into dungeons. Its like getting to customize your own staff for a far cheaper price.
|
|
can cast almost any spell from a scroll (even if I need to emulate ability scores)
You'd only need to do that for... what spells? Charisma lets you tell the scroll you're pretty enough to be a sorcerer for arcane spells, bard for.. well bard spells, oracle for cleric spells.. its kind of one stop shopping for the ability score.
Yes, charisma generally is, druid or ranger spells would be a problem without emulating ability scores though. I don't carry or buy any that I need to emulate, but if I found one that would be useful...
|
My paladin has max ranks in it (now), so that he can use his wand of shield (when he remembers it). Many a rogue has become a backup healer, and mine now has an assortment of wands and scrolls (mostly found in chronicles with reduced charges).
And, need I say, breath of life? Without a healer, this is just a (couple ) UMD away!
I suppose there are a ton of other thing you might want to use, perhaps emulating a class temporarily to activate a class specific magic item... Or for that matter, to activate the macguffin for a scenario.
I would say, personally, to me, UMD is the second or third most useful skill in the book!
Heck, Luscious Lucius Vizinni, my Ratfolk Thassalonian Sin Wizard has taken Pragmatic activator so that he can use it in wands and scrolls that are in his banned schools! (Since for this archetype, the opposition schools are actually removed from the wizard's usual spell list).
|
|
My paladin has max ranks in it (now), so that he can use his wand of shield (when he remembers it). Many a rogue has become a backup healer, and mine now has an assortment of wands and scrolls (mostly found in chronicles with reduced charges). *snip*
We were in Haunting of Harrowstone and it quite literally came down to my rogue being able to UMD CLW on the hunter's animal companion to save the party's bacon during a running combat, as two thirds of the party was down... So yes, it has its uses, just have to be ready for the downside to it.
Thanks for all the ideas and advice!
I forgot to mention this, but I am an oracle of battle with a greatsword and full-plate.
I'll be sure to look at the reduced charge wands in my chronicle sheets for some good/cheap wands.
There are a bunch of ideas on this thread that I'd like to use, which begs a follow up question: what is the best way to fund wand purchases (PP vs gold)? Since he is more of a melee character I'm not going to get as much use out of wands as a caster focused oracle, but I still see myself getting plenty of use out of them.
|
|
Thanks for all the ideas and advice!
I forgot to mention this, but I am an oracle of battle with a greatsword and full-plate.
I'll be sure to look at the reduced charge wands in my chronicle sheets for some good/cheap wands.
There are a bunch of ideas on this thread that I'd like to use, which begs a follow up question: what is the best way to fund wand purchases (PP vs gold)? Since he is more of a melee character I'm not going to get as much use out of wands as a caster focused oracle, but I still see myself getting plenty of use out of them.
If its your first character or you come to really love him Gold: save PP for body recoveries and raises. If its character -10 or so and you just want him to mess things up, spend the PP.
|
|
Thanks for all the ideas and advice!
I forgot to mention this, but I am an oracle of battle with a greatsword and full-plate.
I'll be sure to look at the reduced charge wands in my chronicle sheets for some good/cheap wands.
There are a bunch of ideas on this thread that I'd like to use, which begs a follow up question: what is the best way to fund wand purchases (PP vs gold)? Since he is more of a melee character I'm not going to get as much use out of wands as a caster focused oracle, but I still see myself getting plenty of use out of them.
So, you've got a very similar use-case to my Paladin (Magnus Landros) and his sister, who is a battle oracle w/ Nodachi and full plate.
I am all about spending the PP for level-1 wands... if a Shield spell keeps you alive, then it is totally worth it! Especially if you've backed it by an extended shield of faith (giving a potential 6-7 AC swing, depending on level).
How I see using it, is mostly in dungeon crawl situations... use the wand for shield right before you go through a door!
|
One thing to keep in mind, if you're giving your paladin UMD:
Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.It doesn't matter if you're planning to just pick up some first level wands, and it won't affect your cleric scrolls, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Question is, how does that interact with the PFS rule of "For the sake of simplicity, there is no difference between an arcane and divine scroll or wand."?
|
Thanks for all the ideas and advice!
I forgot to mention this, but I am an oracle of battle with a greatsword and full-plate.
I'll be sure to look at the reduced charge wands in my chronicle sheets for some good/cheap wands.
There are a bunch of ideas on this thread that I'd like to use, which begs a follow up question: what is the best way to fund wand purchases (PP vs gold)? Since he is more of a melee character I'm not going to get as much use out of wands as a caster focused oracle, but I still see myself getting plenty of use out of them.
I see a lot of Wands of Heighten Awareness being UMD'd - to give a +4 unamed bonus to initiative
Longstrider would be good for you for speed
Lead Blades to make your greatsword hit at 3d6 (1st level ranger spell)
Unwelcome Halo for those with issues have issues with deeper darkness and are not good.
Wand of Shield would give you a shield bonus while wieding your great sword
Sometimes there are magic devices one must operate in a module that uses UMB
Also, there is a trait out there that has UMD use Intelligence and not Charisma - so Int casters can use cure wands.
Grease Wand - to add +10 to your (or your buddies) CMB to get out of Black Tentacles or prevent grabbing.
And note, while grappled you can use a wand, where casting a spell might be trouble.
all of these are wands - except consider this. The DC to make a scroll work is 20+caster level. so if having a few scrolls of the spell would mean if you rolled a 1 on one scroll, you could still try a different one.
|
|
One thing to keep in mind, if you're giving your paladin UMD:
Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.It doesn't matter if you're planning to just pick up some first level wands, and it won't affect your cleric scrolls, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Can you please quote the exact rule that you are talking about? I may be just missing it, but I do not see it in the rule you linked to on scrolls.
Thank you.
|
|
One thing to keep in mind, if you're giving your paladin UMD:
Using a scroll is like casting a spell for purposes of arcane spell failure chance.It doesn't matter if you're planning to just pick up some first level wands, and it won't affect your cleric scrolls, but it's definitely something to keep in mind.
Can you please quote the exact rule that you are talking about? I may be just missing it, but I do not see it in the rule you linked to on scrolls.
Thank you.
This rule is in the section about Activation. Under the subheading of Activate the Spell. It is the last sentence of the first paragraph.
|
|
Vanish: Come on. You know you're not going to last that long before ganking anyone. Why pay extra for invisibility rounds you won't use?Doesn't work. It is a 1st-level wand. The spell lasts 1 round.
Round 1:
Standard action: use the wand. Turn invisible.
Move action: whatever you want.Round 2:
Start of your turn: turn visible.
Standard action: "oops, I thought I would be invisible."Hand wand to mr wizard. Mr wizard pokes you in the butt. You gank something.
Poor mans dimension door: Wand self: no aoo, no concentration check. Walk to back of party where its safe.
Round 1: Drink a Potion of invisibility
Round 2+: Delay until after AC (Mount) has gone, then tap him with a Wand of Vanish...Everyone sees AC attack from invisibility - then vanish... "Blink Dog"
There are a couple items out there that can help if you really want UMD to scale faster. Pink and Green Sphere (Cracked) for 200gp gives a +1 competence bonus to a CHA skill, The Magenta Prism (Cracked) gives a +2 competence bonus to a skill that can be changed daily (doesn't stack with the Pink and Green Sphere). Masterwork tools give a +2 circumstance for 50gp for a single aspect of the skill. Circlet of Persuasion gives a +3 competence bonus to CHA based checks for 4500gp (again doesn't stack with the Ioun Stones). And obviously the headband of Inspired Wisdom. There's probably some more out there. w
For the masterwork UMD tool, is one that specifically aids in the use of wand activation specific enough? If so, the cracked magenta prism and a mwk tool would be incredibly cost efficient.
|
|
For the masterwork UMD tool, is one that specifically aids in the use of wand activation specific enough? If so, the cracked magenta prism and a mwk tool would be incredibly cost efficient.
Table variation.
Theres an old jason bulhman post that said there was a masterwork tool for every skill.
This post by mike brock says theres one for every skill but check out ultimate equipment.
Ultimate equipment gives us this paragraph, which tosses it strait back into "damned if i know"
no nonmagical item exists that grants a bonus for all uses
of that skill. For example, just because a certain perfume is
favored by local nobles (granting a +2 circumstance bonus
on Diplomacy checks to influence them) doesn’t mean that
perfume has the same effect on a member of the thieves’
guild, a foreign berserker, or a medusa. Likewise, just because
a fake beard woven by dwarves out of the beards of famous
dwarves may grant a +2 circumstance bonus on Use Magic
Device checks to emulate the dwarven race doesn’t mean the
beard has any effect on using that skill to activate elven items
or paladin items, or to decipher a written spell
|
|
| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
As a GM, I typically allow any masterwork tool that the player can provide a reasonable description for.
"It's a masterwork Use Magic Device tool," is insufficient, in my opinion.
Genuine imitation azlanti pool cue for the wand?
I'm inclined to allow it on the basis that a lot of masterwork tools are kits. You don't just have a lucky rabbits foot for activating blindly, you have a lucky rabbits foot, a prism for read magic scrolls, the pool cue for wands, a beard to get your dwarf on, some brie for thinking really elfy, a rigid bar of iron for thinking paladiny thoughts...
Venture-Lieutenant, Netherlands—Leiden
|
I understand the UE section to mean that you can buy a masterwork tool if you're quite specific about the check it's gonna give a bonus on. The "masterwork tool of activating this particular wand", which is a leaflet with "RTFM" in draconic runes on it, for example.
|
|
Wand of True Strike + Whip = +16 + dice cmb on trip or disarm (range 15).
Wand of Ill Omen + caster buddy (who goes just after you do) = roll a will,fort,or reflex twice and take lower (on caster buddy's spell).
Once upon a time - I broke a cardinal don't change the game rule as GM when I got tired of turning 1st level characters into wights; I gave it a weapon. The Gods of Pathfinder taught me a lesson - when the one person cast true strike with a whip, and promptly disarmed the poor wight of his weapon - right before the wight's initiative.
that game's count was two wights and two shadows - the paladin ran away early when he realized what was going down.
luckily it takes a while for spawn to spawn
|
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Baltic
|
I understand the UE section to mean that you can buy a masterwork tool if you're quite specific about the check it's gonna give a bonus on. The "masterwork tool of activating this particular wand", which is a leaflet with "RTFM" in draconic runes on it, for example.
Also the use of a masterwork item might require time (AKA take out the leaflet and read it), so some GMs might not give you that +2 during combat.
|
Venture-Captain, California—Sacramento
|
As a GM, I typically allow any masterwork tool that the player can provide a reasonable description for.
"It's a masterwork Use Magic Device tool," is insufficient, in my opinion.
Genuine imitation azlanti pool cue for the wand?
I'm inclined to allow it on the basis that a lot of masterwork tools are kits. You don't just have a lucky rabbits foot for activating blindly, you have a lucky rabbits foot, a prism for read magic scrolls, the pool cue for wands, a beard to get your dwarf on, some brie for thinking really elfy, a rigid bar of iron for thinking paladiny thoughts...
I'm too grouchy (long day) to go find the post right now. But Mike Brocks offical stance on MW tools can be more or less summed up as "If it's reasonable it's allowed. Please don't make me get more specific or no one will like how specific I get. What I don't want to see is PC's walking around with 26 masterwork tools. Please use good judgement."
In general masterwork tools only affect a specific use of a skill, have a limited number of charges, or some similar limit.
I haven't done it yet, but I plan on getting a masterwork tool for UMD. A notebook titled "how I got it to work in the past." Basically, copious notes on how I did it right last time. Limitation: only works on items I have previously activated successfully.
|
|
Its linked in the above post you dont need to dig :)
A mw thieves tool isnt a good pick. Its an entire tool roll of picks, crowbars wedges shims and widgets.50 gp for two to a skill. When dming thats how i view it. As a player i avoid them because limitations like what you have are how its supposed to work but is too much like custom item making for me.
|
|
I haven't done it yet, but I plan on getting a masterwork tool for UMD. A notebook titled "how I got it to work in the past." Basically, copious notes on how I did it right last time. Limitation: only works on items I have previously activated successfully.
See? That sounds awesome. I just don't want to hear, "I use my masterwork tool of Use Magic Device to add +2 to this roll."