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Stating that the build doesn't work is incorrect. Talking about inspire courage, the FCB allowed you to get to a +3 bonus @ lvl 8 and combined with the banner to a +4 bonus @ lvl 9. The new FCB no longer gives you a bump to +3 as this is overshadowed by the purchase of the banner and you can now get to a +4 @ lvl 12. However, without the FCB at all you can get to a +4 @ lvl 13. So overall, the FCB change killed any real benefit to using it and your points are probably better spent as points in a variety of knowledge skills. The FCB change also doesn't change the fact that the flag bearer/banner combo is great. I have the same style of bard and he still bards like a bard should bard.How does the FCB make the concept not work? If I recall correctly it takes it from +6 attack / damage to +5 attack / damage?A friend of mine just played at Level 2 for an Aasimar Bard that was made before the cut-off. The level 2 build was built towards increasing Inspire Courage, and going with Flagbearer/Banner of the Ancient Kings. The FCB change basically makes the concept not work, and he would very much like to change to an archery focus to try to salvage the character.
Yeah, I overstated it a little, basically he is really annoyed that the FCB change made it so those bonuses are not worth taking at all, and are better put into skill points. You can still make a decent character with it, but it changed the entire focus of the build.
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Where's the clarification on slashing grace rebuilds?
Edit: here are the details...
Characters that relied on Slashing Grace qualify for a rebuild as though an ability-score-dependent class feature had changed. Sell back any weapons, armor, and equipment associated with the character’s fighting style (e.g. something improving two-weapon fighting or the like—be a fair judge of what makes sense) at their full price.
Characters that have levels in a class archetype—or another class option such as a magus arcana—that granted the opportune parry and riposte deed can freely retrain any levels in a class that grants those features. They may also sell back any equipment that no long functions properly based on retraining (e.g. a monk weapon if you retrained levels in kata master).
If an ability-score-dependent feature of a class, prestige class, or archetype is altered: You may rebuild your character to its current XP. Keep the same equipment, but you can resell any equipment that augments the changed ability score at its full market price.
So absolutely no relation to PFS, but I am a little sad that PunPun was errata-ed out of existence. I was playing a high level play by post with a spirit guide lunar oracle having fun trying to see how SAD I could get him (cha to all saves with divine protection, initiative, spells, and AC). After leveling up I was looking at potential feats when I ran into animal soul. With divine protection, maximize, and awaken (from spirit guide) I could have given him near limitless (2k cost per cast) HD (which gives accuracy, damage through power attack, saves, skills, and health) and charisma (more saves, spells per day, spell DC, AC, and imitative). I didn't take animal soul (because some things are too overpowered even for me) but it was fun to look back on it and laugh.
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So absolutely no relation to PFS, but I am a little sad that PunPun was errata-ed out of existence. I was playing a high level play by post with a spirit guide lunar oracle having fun trying to see how SAD I could get him (cha to all saves with divine protection, initiative, spells, and AC). After leveling up I was looking at potential feats when I ran into animal soul. With divine protection, maximize, and awaken (from spirit guide) I could have given him near limitless (2k cost per cast) HD (which gives accuracy, damage through power attack, saves, skills, and health) and charisma (more saves, spells per day, spell DC, AC, and imitative). I didn't take animal soul (because some things are too overpowered even for me) but it was fun to look back on it and laugh.
Unless I'm missing something, you can only awaken something once. The spell only works on animals with an intelligence of 2 or lower. After casting awaken it's impossible to have an intelligence of 2 or lower.
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I had a hunter 1/oracle 5 that was super janky.
The hunter level had the Verminous Hunter archetype, and I had ritualistically killed off my vermin animal companion to get Fast Healing 1 permanently.
I comboed that with a Spirit Guide Life Oracle with FCB going into Channel, having a second Channel pool, and polished it off with Life Link. So I was effectively had a meat sack that took everyone's damage and slowly healed it. The plan was to never buy a wand of CLW during my career.
The flavor was that my character was a leper (wasting curse), that wrapped him self up like a mummy and wore an Osirion burial mask to cover his features (similar to Kingdom of Heaven). Whenever my Life Link ticked, I would bleed like a martyr through the mouth slit of my ivory mask, but I wouldn't die. If the character ever did die, I wouldn't resurrect him (marking him as dead in PFS), because he worshiped the concept of reincarnation and was expecting to come back as the kind of vermin he had killed, thus continuing the cycle.
The errata messed this overpowered build pretty well--killing both the hunter dip and the FCB channel shenanigans--which I am fine with. A one level dip for permanent Fast Healing 1 (and light fortification) is pretty stupid.
Fortunately, my GM for Skulls & Shackles is letting me keep the legacy build, so that we can still be the Immortal Crew of the Grindylow's Grin. The crew takes damage, their wounds mystically close, and I bleed in penance for their injuries before my wounds inexplicably close.
I don't know what will become of the oracle in PFS, I might burn a GenCon boon to rebuild him entirely.
Boots of the Earth are still a PFS legal source of permanent Fast Healing. The Spirit Guide channel pool and FCB channeling take a hit, but the concept is still perfectly doable. And awesome.
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Boots of the Earth are still a PFS legal source of permanent Fast Healing. The Spirit Guide channel pool and FCB channeling take a hit, but the concept is still perfectly doable. And awesome.I had a hunter 1/oracle 5 that was super janky.
The hunter level had the Verminous Hunter archetype, and I had ritualistically killed off my vermin animal companion to get Fast Healing 1 permanently.
I comboed that with a Spirit Guide Life Oracle with FCB going into Channel, having a second Channel pool, and polished it off with Life Link. So I was effectively had a meat sack that took everyone's damage and slowly healed it. The plan was to never buy a wand of CLW during my career.
The flavor was that my character was a leper (wasting curse), that wrapped him self up like a mummy and wore an Osirion burial mask to cover his features (similar to Kingdom of Heaven). Whenever my Life Link ticked, I would bleed like a martyr through the mouth slit of my ivory mask, but I wouldn't die. If the character ever did die, I wouldn't resurrect him (marking him as dead in PFS), because he worshiped the concept of reincarnation and was expecting to come back as the kind of vermin he had killed, thus continuing the cycle.
The errata messed this overpowered build pretty well--killing both the hunter dip and the FCB channel shenanigans--which I am fine with. A one level dip for permanent Fast Healing 1 (and light fortification) is pretty stupid.
Fortunately, my GM for Skulls & Shackles is letting me keep the legacy build, so that we can still be the Immortal Crew of the Grindylow's Grin. The crew takes damage, their wounds mystically close, and I bleed in penance for their injuries before my wounds inexplicably close.
I don't know what will become of the oracle in PFS, I might burn a GenCon boon to rebuild him entirely.
Except this is Skull & Shackles and they are on a ship, making it hard to "draw strength from the earth".
That said, having a little dirt garden on the ship he stands in during ship combat would be hilarious. "We're under attack! Quick, get to the garden!"
So absolutely no relation to PFS, but I am a little sad that PunPun was errata-ed out of existence. I was playing a high level play by post with a spirit guide lunar oracle having fun trying to see how SAD I could get him (cha to all saves with divine protection, initiative, spells, and AC). After leveling up I was looking at potential feats when I ran into animal soul. With divine protection, maximize, and awaken (from spirit guide) I could have given him near limitless (2k cost per cast) HD (which gives accuracy, damage through power attack, saves, skills, and health) and charisma (more saves, spells per day, spell DC, AC, and imitative). I didn't take animal soul (because some things are too overpowered even for me) but it was fun to look back on it and laugh.Unless I'm missing something, you can only awaken something once. The spell only works on animals with an intelligence of 2 or lower. After casting awaken it's impossible to have an intelligence of 2 or lower.
You can lower your int through poisons, certain undead, or a couple other myriad of ways. My favorite joke was to then take a level of ragechemist and go into self mutilation. The idea of turning one of the worst archtypes in the game into a key ingredient of the strongest character ever made me endlessly happy. You are right though, I should have made some mention of lowering the int, but I figured my post was getting pretty wordy already for it being just a side tangent.
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Something I find interesting is that some human options are 1/6 a feat. So since these are also 1/6 of something, if things are equal, then this option is worth 1/6 a feat. So if there was a feat that said you gain 1 level to your bard/oracle class for 1 performance/revelation would you take it? Do you feel that this feat is comparable to other usable feats?
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PirateRob, I have an aasimar Battle oracle protege who I would've built as a barbarian (warpriest now, wasn't an option then) if not for the 1/2 FCB and improved progression possibilities.
2 level early access to improved crit for dachi on a tanky divine build made it appeal, and access to GWF in the capstone levels of PFS. The build doesn't appeal nearly as much any more without the ability to move more of the revelations final improvement in-campaign a level or two of levels earlier... That was worth losing HP gains on a tank build; it's much less convincing now.
I took my lumps and used the guide FCB retrain rule, but I think the errata was completely unneeded (Andy and I disagree about where the OP line glows on the ground, apparently).
I just wanted to say, that it isn't just me that felt that way. I know there are lots of people who felt that the errata was unnecessary and that there are lots of other OP things that could have been modified instead or as well as.
But apparently the design team agreed that those options were OP, because they nerfed them.
So I do feel somewhat vindicated in my opinion. Even if I am in a minority.
Something I find interesting is that some human options are 1/6 a feat. So since these are also 1/6 of something, if things are equal, then this option is worth 1/6 a feat. So if there was a feat that said you gain 1 level to your bard/oracle class for 1 performance/revelation would you take it? Do you feel that this feat is comparable to other usable feats?
On its own maybe really depends on what it helps but doubtful. Now if it scales or could be taken multiple times then its a whole new ballgame.
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Quite a few channel builds are likely to find themselves with feats for which they no longer qualify.My power level got dropped is different than my characters abilities won't synergize together now.
It looks like the only broke things was the slashing grace, and that DID get the overhaul treatment. Someone saw that in this thread so... worth making it so far.
I believe that's pretty well covered. If you don't qualify for the feat, you can retrain it.
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Does someone have a link to where John has said you can do what Andrew proposes. I'm almost positive I've seen him mention it's allowed, but I can't find it. Technically, according to the guide, you can retrain a feat if the feat changes, and you can retrain the FCB bonus into another option, but it doesn't list the option retrain a feat (or it's pre-requisites) due to no longer qualifying because a FCB (or a class feature or other things) has changed. So you'd need to show the quote permitting it to retrain for free.
Also for the awaken thing: