Most of the damnation feats just look like things anyone with the right outsider subtype would already have...
True, and depending on the building, it may not be worth it. It's mostly the capstone abilities that are pretty good. But I'm moving away from that concept.
Oh, a question - If we play a class that gets domains, I assume those are on top of our free domains.
I think i'm going to start off as one of the ones that were in the war vs the world wound. Some druids there became Siabrae to stop the corruption and well, someone had to be the first one. My guy did it and helped them as a way to combat it. This could be part of the reason he fell.
As for the struggle that he has with rage, i think the name Nemesis might work perhaps.
not trying to figure out too many specifics of build yet though.
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Yup, I've managed to settle on my own idea. ^^ Just waiting for the main recruitment.
Oh, and catching up on these...
Character Concepts
Fallen of Betrayal - Rynjin
Fallen of Blasphemy - Cthulu_Eats
Fallen of Contempt - TarkXT
Fallen of Corruption - TarkXT
Fallen of Dark Comedy - thunderbeard
Fallen of Destruction - bigrig107
Fallen of Fire - Johnnycat93
Fallen of Greed - JonGarrett
Fallen of Judgment - Tenro
Fallen of Madness - Bane88
Fallen of Mind - Newbonomicon
Fallen of Pride - Browman
Fallen of Rage - HighonHolyWater
Fallen of Retribution - Dragonflyer1243
Fallen of Temptation - Rednal
Fallen of Trickery - MordredofFairy
Fallen of Vengeance - monkeygod
Fallen of ??? - The Benighted Regent
Geez this thread is a page bigger every time I check it. We're going to scare away the DM, haha.
Think I'm going Angel of Protection -> Fallen Angel of Survival. Kinda like in movies where there is that one evil guy/minion that just keeps showing up and just won't stay down/in jail/etc.
Plus I can make sure he works well with whatever group makeup, because he's already been a bodyguard type person for all his life, so doing the similar thing in hell won't be too big of a problem.
How are we dealing with CR for templates?
Just use our HD instead?
Hmm.
I'm making a daemon graveknight, so Herald is actually exactly what I was looking for.
Which aspect were you thinking of? I was thinking War.
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Sadly, the heralds are always NE, and I think we're supposed to be LE. XD They are pretty fun, though.
*Casually thumbs through Advanced Bestiary for ideas*
Hmm... Lawbound could be a good choice for anyone that really wants to impose order on others. Metal-clad is good if you want to be shiny and tough. Psychic templates offer lots of SLA's usable at various rates, and Quicklings are just fast. Being Outsiders, aging wouldn't be a problem. XD Suzerain is good if you want to be a leader.
*Can elaborate more on any of these*
If I remember correctly, the only alignment that's restricted is Chaotic, which leaves NE open.
I would definitely love to run a collaborating team of Horsemen, although those who do this also need to make sure they can work without the other, in case they aren't chosen.
It is, of course, up to the GM. XD Just wanted to note that in case it's relevant.
*Insert long questioning debate on why the god of the apocalypse is CN but the heralds are NE*
...
You know, in a case like this, it might actually be better to have people write up backstories, and then perhaps make their characters cooperatively after the players are chosen (maybe giving a loose idea of the classes they plan to take and what they plan to do). A 12th Level Tristalt is a LOT of work, and I'd like to waste as little of people's effort as possible. XD;
Really neat concept, Mordred!
Question to the GM since I asked before you showed up:
Were our angels, before falling, like rank-and-file angels that had superiors, were we heralds that answered directly to gods, or were we like free agents?
Wanted to know for character concept reasons, might already be answered when you make the thread.
Well, that's easy.
The Heralds are aspects of the Horsemen, who are Daemons, and they're NE.
And yeah, I've got a rough idea and outline going, and probably won't be able to stop myself from building him anyway, but seeing what everyone's planning on doing would help quite a bit.
So what all has been confirmed character creation wise?
I do agree the sooner the better because this thing is going to take awhile.
@Battlespy-
Battlespy: That is up to you to decide. Remember that no treatment from the higher ups in the Heavens is cruel, even though they may definitely by hard to deal with sometimes.
So, basically, choose what makes sense to you.
@TarkXT- well, I think it's 12 level, not sure yet though. 30 point buy, with some form of eidolon-purchasing system. A new outsider subtype, probably with a bunch of immunities/resistances. Fiendish Power, which lets you buy powers from existing fiends. Templates are allowed, and take up a number of levels on one column of the tristalt equal to CR adjustment-1.
Basically, super-angels.
Also I love the heralds of the apocalypse idea and totally down for doing that.
Oh dang, thanks bigrig. I guess I missed that.
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As this thread is full of veterans, I'd like to ask for build ideas that would be interesting for the theme of genius that fell into madness.
I was thinking of using Dark Tapestry, or Void Oracle. Maybe insanity patron witch? Magus in there possibly or a couple levels of Antipaladin.
Basically just workshopping ideas.
I'd recommend taking a look at the Cryptic, in particular the Lost Mind archetype. It's in PsiAug i think
Could you expound upon Lawbound, perhaps via PM, Rednal?
I can link the template, at least.
Still kicking around ideas and I'll wait for the full build rules to see which of them pan out best, but right now deception and wrath are the forerunners, conceptually.
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I'd recommend taking a look at the Cryptic, in particular the Lost Mind archetype. It's in PsiAug i thinkAs this thread is full of veterans, I'd like to ask for build ideas that would be interesting for the theme of genius that fell into madness.
I was thinking of using Dark Tapestry, or Void Oracle. Maybe insanity patron witch? Magus in there possibly or a couple levels of Antipaladin.
Basically just workshopping ideas.
Then after that go straight antipaladin. Covers all your saves Boosts your low fort and bab and grants you lots of offensive options and grants immunities.
I'm actually thinking about going Anti-paladin and "collecting" diseases.
Like, intentionally infect my immune self with every awful thing imaginable.
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Yes, become Nurgle.
Honestly if I wasn't afraid it'd go in some really weird directions I'd snatch Lust up without hesitation. Might still do it.
I can link the template, at least.
Thanks, that sounds absolutely perfect for a Judge-type devil
I'm just worried about the fact that several of us are planning non-lawful characters and that Aura of Order.
-5 to all ability, skill, and level checks while within 10 feet of you?
No thanks.
Antipaladin is chaotic, though, otherwise there'd be a rush to dip that in a tristalt game...
Currently, my vote for "coolest template that's not *terribly* broken" is Limbjack, though I don't think it's super appropriate for my character (unless I can think of a way to flavor it).
I'm just worried about the fact that several of us are planning non-lawful characters and that Aura of Order.
-5 to all ability, skill, and level checks while within 10 feet of you?
No thanks.
Frankly I wouldn't get that close anyways. I'd hate to get celestial herpes or something.
Antipaladin is chaotic, though, otherwise there'd be a rush to dip that in a tristalt game...
There is one way. The pfsrd does have an archetype specifically for anti-paladin worshipers of devils and Asmodeus specifically. Sadly the actual print about Anti-Paladins being lawful evil only shows up in the first book of WotW so in all likelihood not workable here.
Tenro can you link Lost Mind?
@thunderbeard- Antipaladin has been "unchained" from chaotic, so any evil can be an antipaladin. Even with this, however, I don't want any divine aspects to him, and won't be taking any levels in any divine class, including antipaladin, Besides, undead antipaladin/oracle/Scion of War could get insanely SAD. Charisma to AC, saves, CMD, initiave checks, and hit points. Even that is too much for me.
Edit: found it.
Paladins are also banned due to their requirement of LG. Antipaladins, however, are allowed and are not limited to CE. In fact, if I remember correctly, chaotic alignments are banned, due to the PCs starting out after the fall the the Nine Hells.
@Johnnycat- Celestial Herpes? Antipaladins are immune, right? I'm gonna have the Sacrilegious Aura, which is Desecrate w/in 30 feet, along with a positive energy counter. Herald will give me a gaze attack, which I think you can turn it off with some sort of veil, ala medusa.
Tenro can you link Lost Mind?
Cant, actually. It isnt on the SRD. If you send me a PM, when i get home from work i will PM you details. It is in the Psionics Augmented book if you have that.
Re: law aura: i can suppress it if i need to be that close. Likely I'd just stay away, i imagine everyone will have some sort of unpleasantness around them.
Do we have any indication of wealth?
Normal for 12th level characters?
More? Less?
Oh, you can suppress auras?
I didn't realize that.
That'll certainly be useful for when we have to fight off the demonic invasion.
That's what the CR adjustment -1, at least +1, comes from.
I'll have to decide on my classes before I start looking at good template combos. I might try to get a total of three templates, so all classes at level 11 or so, plus the excellent flavor that templates offer. ^^
Well, if we are fighting demons the aura stays up and ill just stay 10ft away. Too useful vs chaotic demons
Hmmm... My muse has stuck - the Fallen of Pattern - A cryptic/psion/tactician for a very cerebral sort.
Domains: tactics, memory, rune
I don't think Instrument of the Gods will be permitted. XD That one's just flat-out BROKEN for a PC to have. (More-or-less intentionally - it's meant to be an easy way of supercharging a creature)
Party Size: Five. Too much? Think again! Have you ever seen what a Mythic Advanced Wrathful Erinyes Spell-less Ranger10/Bard10/Antipaladin10 with Dual Initiative (Two rounds worth of actions per round!) looks like? It isn't pretty, at least for PCs! Hell isn't a place for lowly scrubs and the emphasis on 'stuff is deadly' is greatly enhanced. For that matter, most planar creatures are as well! Why would fiends be weaker than dragons or mortal heroes? I think that people have stopped being scared of evil outsiders because of the glut and their relatively, based on their place in the multiverse at least, weak power levels. That will be remedied!
Party Splitting: I am perfectly fine with the party splitting at times and I actually have a few scenarios that may be ran where it is actually to their benefit to split up.
Regarding Paizo Nerfs: Ignore the recent nerfs by Paizo, Scarred Witch Doctor included. I know I have blatantly ignored most of those seemingly pointless nerfs!
Template Limits: None, apart from the level limit.
Madness Angel: Dark Tapestry Oracle is the way to go, as far as first party material, as is Clerics with the Madness Domain and Selective Channel!
Domain Stacking: Yes. Benighted Regent answered that for me upthread.
Templates: Answered upthread by Benighted Regent.
Outsider Subgroups: Your characters are part of the Fallen subgroup. There are no Daemons or such, although you may certainly skew your abilities in such a way that you are in everything but name.
Angelic Position Before Fall: Any but Herald status. You could have even been one of the archangels, although the fall strips much of your former power.
Angel of Plague: TarkXT, how funny you should mention that with all this horrible disease related abilities, particularly one that reduces the onset time to ONE ROUND and forces saves versus damage every 1d4 rounds!
Wealth: There will be very little in the way of wealth, at least at the beginning. PCs will start the campaign with a few items of their choice, but will gain the powers of various magic items, up to a certain GP amount, as INNATE ABILITIES! How's that for awesome? Want a twisted creator angel? Give them the power of a Lyre of Building as an innate ability! You gain similar innate abilities, based on what would be your WBL, as you level.
Instrument of the Gods: It is quite broken, but it is banned because of flavor first, brokenness later.
Also, party of BR's house! More posts in several hours.
I'm guessing that means you're not going for Herald of the Apocalypse, Mordred?
Or are you still heading that route?
I think I've settled on War, what with it fitting so well, along with a pretty fantastic background, if I do say so myself.
Curious, are we starting, or ever going to become Mythic?
Current class breakdown: Inquisitor/Ranger(likely Spell-Less)/Slayer. I am thinking about possibly taking the Cold Iron Warden archetype.
Concept wise, think a cross between Nemesis from Greek mythology and Loki from Dogma. He who carries out divine punishment and vengeance on behalf of the gods.
In fact, I was thinking Tenro and I could possibly be working partners, similar to Bartleby and Loki from the aforementioned Dogma lol.
Wondering just how fantastic our former deeds can be, because the background I'm working on now has her meeting an actual Horseman, most likely Szuriel.
That kinda stuff doesn't happen to lower-importance angels, ya know.
@GM question:
Angelic Position Before Fall: Any but Herald status. You could have even been one of the archangels, although the fall strips much of your former power.
Would it be instead possible to have *gained* power in the fall? I'm thinking starting as either a Lillend or Lyrakien (as inspiration for my "base shape" etc.), and if I go with Lyrakien, that's a whole lot of power difference to make up.
* * *
Besides, undead antipaladin/oracle/Scion of War could get insanely SAD. Charisma to AC, saves, CMD, initiave checks, and hit points. Even that is too much for me.
Heh... I'm playing that character in a game with you right now :p (although Lord Rook went 3AD int/wis/cha, and his 3 Str/6 dex/4 con remains a tangible weakness)
If templates have ability boosts stripped, shouldn't the CR be adjusted? Much of the CR is based on the ability boosts.
No, not really. Templates are generally balanced for monsters, not characters; most Paizo material on templates actually suggests stripping or reducing ability boosts if allowing players to take them without too much difficulty. I think the adjusted CR is more for the "fun" that might result from encouraging a template-heavy party.
Paizo Nerfs: Ignore the recent nerfs by Paizo, Scarred Witch Doctor included. I know I have blatantly ignored most of those seemingly pointless nerfs!
Bring on the Divine Protection! oh hmm maybe not, but the amateur swashbuckler stuff could work well with my concept.
Wealth: There will be very little in the way of wealth, at least at the beginning. PCs will start the campaign with a few items of their choice,...
Sweeet. Lyre of Building, magical tattoos, literally nothing else! I can see no issues with that as my starting equipment.
***
Meanwhile, I've got a lot of ideas for my concept (as do all of yours), but I have enough that I don't want to post a bunch of things in the thread. Would people be interested in buddying up in pairs or small groups to bounce specifics of character concepts off each other?