| 5 people marked this as a favorite. |
I actually was 100% satisfied with the Paragon Surge nerf. Retained the spells functionality without ruining it. Sure it was restricted to requiring you to pick the same feat for the day, but that's not so tight that it became useless. I said as much at the time, but it's good to highlight what balancing changes were good, so that it can perhaps lead to better balancing in the future.
I feel like weapon cords was a good nerf, although it was a double-feature and the first try sucked.
Ultimately they landed in a good place.
I also think that the poly-morph spells (and by extension, wild-shape) nerf from 3.5 into PF was really well done
Paladin's smiting. Of course, from memory I believe this was old zero day errata? If so it's hardly something to celebrate.
|
I think a fair bit of the ACG errata falls into this category. I suspect many people would agree with that statement (while, of course, disagreeing as to which changes :-) ).
For one example, Pummeling Style is still a very good feat. I wouldn't dream of changing it for a different feat despite the nerf
I feel like weapon cords was a good nerf, although it was a double-feature and the first try sucked.
Ultimately they landed in a good place.
I also think that the poly-morph spells (and by extension, wild-shape) nerf from 3.5 into PF was really well done
What was the polymorph/wildshape nerf?
|
In 3.5, you used to replace your stats with the stats of whatever you turned into, instead of modifying your stats. A druid with 6 Strength could wild shape into a bear and be just as potent as a druid with 18 strength wild shaped into a bear. That made it easy to dump physical stats with no loss of combat ability.
Also you got all the extraordinary attacks, not a fixed list, which meant that if a monster came out with a really powerful unique extraordinary attack, you could get that through polymorph.
I think a fair bit of the ACG errata falls into this category. I suspect many people would agree with that statement (while, of course, disagreeing as to which changes :-) ).
For one example, Pummeling Style is still a very good feat. I wouldn't dream of changing it for a different feat despite the nerf
I won't say that they made Pummeling Style a bad feat but honestly I would have preferred it's previous incarnation or the errata version but make it applicable to weapons again (I know this was likely never the intention feat but I don't care). Honestly it's changes like this that cause me to fall into the crowd that cries martial caster disparity because it seems like they're needlessly nitpicking at things that shift the power curve in a fairly minor way and more than that the "mistakes" were changes I liked.
Getting back on track I'll state the obvious, unchained summoner.
The Pummeling Style change was good, with the caveat that it should have been usable with Close weapons IMO. Pummeling Style was a MESS as originally written, and din't make a lick of sense. The crit thing was pretty crazy too (though it would have been neat if it made Unarmed Strikes hit at x3 or something instead, I dunno).
I agree with Anzyr on the Paragon Surge change.
...Can't think of any others that were handled well.
|
|
| 2 people marked this as a favorite. |
I can agree with the 3.5 polymorph changes.
Weapon cords weren't a good nerf though, they should have just errata'd dual barreled firearms.
Pummeling charge was a solid nerf, I can agree with that. Same with Paragon Surge, even if it was a cool 'perfect mage' design before it.
Although for every good nerf, there's a HUGE amount of Crane Wings.
Pounce Lances was a fine nerf in my book. Sure, it was a martial nerf but it just got to the point where the option was like 5 times the DPR of other melee options.
The spells known errata/FAQ was good, too. Mostly, at least. There are now a couple soft cover options that are borked, but most DMs would allow them as intended imho. I feel like there is a cleaner solution out there, but I'm not sure what it is.
There are some individual spell nerfs from 3.5 which worked - glitterdust is still a very good spell, but not ban-worthy.
I think the sound striker bard took a couple of tries too, but it more or less works now.
Can't agree with p-sto on the unchained summoner being a good nerf though.
Pounce Lances was a fine nerf in my book. Sure, it was a martial nerf but it just got to the point where the option was like 5 times the DPR of other melee options.
Which version of it? I'd assume the current one, but there have been a couple different takes on it due to various failed attempts to clarify the horridly borked mounted combat rules.
That sad, I'd agree that the current rule of "RageLancePounce can happen, but you only multiply damage on the first hit" is a pretty reasonable compromise.
I think a fair bit of the ACG errata falls into this category. I suspect many people would agree with that statement (while, of course, disagreeing as to which changes :-) ).
For one example, Pummeling Style is still a very good feat. I wouldn't dream of changing it for a different feat despite the nerf
I won't say that they made Pummeling Style a bad feat but honestly I would have preferred it's previous incarnation or the errata version but make it applicable to weapons again (I know this was likely never the intention feat but I don't care). Honestly it's changes like this that cause me to fall into the crowd that cries martial caster disparity because it seems like they're needlessly nitpicking at things that shift the power curve in a fairly minor way and more than that the "mistakes" were changes I liked.
Getting back on track I'll state the obvious, unchained summoner.
I was one of the loudest opponents to 'pummeling punch with my greatsword'. The main problem was the crit rule.
The pummeling style crits were designed around 20/x2. If you use a keen 18-20, or a keen 19-20....your likelihood of critting with the whole full attack was eventually over 90%. Each and every time.
I hardly count this as a nerf though. It was more "You people are trying to do WHAT?!". The original wording was in no way unclear about its intended use.
For an actual nerf to this- I hear that the crit stuff doesn't work when you do pummeling charge anymore. Which means...it is just clustershot and pseudo pounce for unarmed strikes (ie- the things unarmed strikes needed most of all). So boohoo.
Now then...for a nerf from this errata I support- the loss of precise strike for the magus. I know this reduces arcane deed to a flavor option now... but the original form gave the magus a TON of extra damage for little cost. It basically meant you could skip power attack and just pretend to be a Full BAB class (as well as a class with some of the best nova abilities, 6 spell levels, and two great saves).
It practically made the magus a better user of precise strike than he swashbuckler. That is gutting another class for one of its best class features and then using it to improve yourself when you are already a powerful class.
So it is kinda obvious that you shouldn't be allowed to go around using it whenever anymore. I might have just upped the cost of the deed to 2 arcane points...but still, it should not be something you could do constantly, since it was unbalancing
Pounce Lances was a fine nerf in my book. Sure, it was a martial nerf but it just got to the point where the option was like 5 times the DPR of other melee options.Which version of it? I'd assume the current one, but there have been a couple different takes on it due to various failed attempts to clarify the horridly borked mounted combat rules.
That sad, I'd agree that the current rule of "RageLancePounce can happen, but you only multiply damage on the first hit" is a pretty reasonable compromise.
The latest. I don't recall the other attempts at nerfing it being official FAQs, just dev commentary, but it has been a while.