Newbie looking for a melee class


Advice


Hey guys,

since you helped me a lot with finding a class for my own I'd thought you could help a friend of mine as well who wants to start with Pathfinder and is looking for a class.

He likes to play neutral to evil characters whose main goal it is to get as rich as possible. He also doesn't care about stealing from his friends. Even though he isn't a good character he always has something funny to say. He wants to be a bit like Drizzt Do'Urden (+ being able to spellcast). The character also should be a Drow.

He would like to play a melee class and wants to be able to do some kind of spell casting as well. I originally thought about the Eldritch Knight but as far i was know the EK is more magic than melee oriented.

I then thought about the Inquisitor. But actually most of them are using either sword and shield or 2handed weapons. And my friends prefers fighting with fast weapons.

Maybe the Bard is his best bet. But I'm very sure he doesn't like the music stuff about the Bard (Bard doesn't sound "manly" enough). And he also wants to fight in the front line. That's why I thought about the Arcane Duelist or Dervish Dancer Archetype.

The Duelist or Assasin Prestige Classes also sounds pretty nice.

Would the Magus also be a decent choice? I don't know how melee oriented he is (he wants to play more melee than spell casting). And maybe he is too squishy?

Maybe the last choice I can think of would be the Ninja. He isn't able to do spell casting I think but fits the darker character pretty good.

So. To sum things up: I'm looking for a darker charakter playable as Drow who is a deadly und fast fighter, doesn't die to fast in the front line and ideally knows a few spells.

Thanks a lot for your help. :)

PS: Since he knows even less about Pathfinder than me, the class shouldn't be too hard to play.


Inquisitor is fine, although Bane will cost a feat to use 2 weapons.

Warpriest is good, the scaling damage means even light weapons end up hitting like greatswords, and they get combat feats as if fighter level, good armor, and spells that they can swift cast.

Magus is a 1 handed weapon fighter. TWF is possible with a couple archetypes, but it really means you can't cast and TWF in the same round easily.

Bard is fine, if that isn't manly enough for him, pick Skald (ACG) which is a barbarian bard that rages his teammates as a song.

Assassin prestige isn't really any good. If he likes that feel though, the Stygian Slayer Archetype gets Invisibility at 4th and access to some basic magic for stealth and killing from wands and scrolls. As a Slayer gets TWF without having the Dex by picking the ranger style feats. I would really recommend this for him if he wants just a couple spells, he can also take the rogue talent for magic and get a cantrip he can sneak attack with and vanish, which is the best stealthy assassin spell out there.

If he wants to be Dex based, 3 levels of Unchained Rogue then Slayer would be his best mix, as he would be able to pick a different combat style and ignore Str requirements instead, which is really nice.


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1. I strongly advise against stealing from friends. It's a good way to not have friends. Usually that means "in-character friends" but I've seen it spill out into actually hostility between players, too. Neutral-Evil doesn't mean he has to screw his team; presumably he WANTS a team and presumably he recognizes that he will get rich faster and more safely with a team than without, so while he may screw everyone in town, he should be smart enough to crap where he eats...

2. Have you looked at the Bloodrager? It's not quite a dual-wielding Drizzt, but it's still pretty quick, gets good combat spells, and is more melee than magic. Seems to fit what you're looking for fairly closely.


I told him about the Bloodrager. But he isn't a big fan of the Barbarian...

I thought about the Skald as well. But I don't think he likes to sing songs and stuff. That's not the kind of magic he has in mind. What about the Arcane Duelist and Dervish Dancer? What kind of magic do they use. Do they rely on songs and music as well?

TWF isn't necessarily obligatory. One weapon would be fine. So Warpriest and Magus might be a good option, right? Which one got more "flashy spells" (explosions and stuff) and which one is squishier?

The Stygian Slayer sounds awesome. I'll have a look at him.

What do you think about the Duelist?

@ DM_Blake: Our whole party is somewhat darker. And since we are really good friends that actually is fine.


Arcane Duelist and Dervish Dancer are still bards. They still mostly do enchantments/illusions/buffs, not a lot of damage spells. They can be combat frontliners, but nowhere near the damage of a Warpriest, Magus, or Slayer.

The thing about a TWF Warpriest is that even daggers get to be 2d6 weapons eventually. Warpriest are tankier, and they do a lot of buffing and swinging with less blasty flashy magic.

Magus are all damage, not a lot of buffs, no control to speak of. They do one thing really, which is kill things with sword+spell damage. They are usually squishier, and take until level 13 to get to cast in heavy armor. They rely on Mirror Image and Blur/Displacement to avoid getting hit.

Duelist is a waste of print now that the Swashbuckler is out in the ACG. Swashbuckler is a 20 level version of what the Duelist wanted to grow up to be, IMO. Flavor is good, but just call the swashbuckler class a duelist in play, and do much more with it.


So. I just asked him and he decided for a Warpriest. How do you build a Warpriest level 6 so that it fits his needs?


Shyrak wrote:


Would the Magus also be a decent choice? I don't know how melee oriented he is (he wants to play more melee than spell casting). And maybe he is too squishy?

Magus can be a good choice though the magic and melee are equal parts. As for squishy I've found magus can be very powerful if done right.

1. Get the blade tutor's spirit spell, it reduces the penalties for combat expertise and fighting defensively. Mix with the trait to reduce the penalties for combat expertise and get crane style for no penalty defensive fun.
2. Kensei archetype can be fun and powerful as it lets you build your AC over time off of your intelligence modifier as well as dex, but you can't wear armor.
3. If you don't want to do the 2nd option the class slowly builds up its armor proficiency over time finally letting you be in full plate casting spells.

Eldritch Knight is a good option if you don't want to be a full spell-caster and would rather have that on top of being a melee rather than a full mixture. Though I've seen some people mix it with magus to bump their melee ability while still keeping certain parts of the magus as well.

That said Magus i find is a terrible choice for someone who is fresh. Generally non-spontaneous spellcasters tend to be a bit more complexity than a player wants to deal with starting off as its very easy to make terrible choices when making it making those lower levels more painful than they need to be.

Bloodrager is a good secondary option like eldritch knight it kinda keeps the casting and melee separate. Though the blood conduit is pretty silly as they can swift action cast spells if they grapple or simply punch someone.

Personally i think oracle is the best option for melee with spells sort of deal though for somone new. Lot of people would probably disagree with this but hear me out.
1. Oracles when you hear the name definitely bring a specific idea to your mind but really the name is meaningless. Its a very modular class letting you change how the whole thing works depending on what you chose. Honestly the main flavor of it is that you're somone who got powers like a sorcerer but unlike a sorcerer who knows its due to some family history with magic, you're just unsure.
2. Battle, Metal, and other such mysteries complement melee very well and their BAB isn't bad either allowing them to easily stack various bonuses.
3. The curses can be very fun. I had one player making a "Zatoichi-esk" character with the clouded vision due to the fact that it eventually got you blindsense and blindsight. I had a character once who just took the curse that forced me to speak in another language in combat. I chose abyssal for fun, and its not hard for the party to just throw a rank at linguistics to learn what you're saying if they don't already know it.
4. Divine magic lets you wear any armor you want as well as provides self-healing. This is the best feature for a newbie in my opinion who is open to spellcasting because if they mess up they can throw a heal at themselves.
5. Oracle has no alignment requirements. Unlike most divine spellcasters which are beholden to an alignment or deity you're free.

Also if they get bored of oracle and don't feel like seeing the spells or mysteries to the end multi classing is a perfectly acceptable option in this situation to gain even more melee abilities.


DM_Blake wrote:

1. I strongly advise against stealing from friends. It's a good way to not have friends. Usually that means "in-character friends" but I've seen it spill out into actually hostility between players, too. Neutral-Evil doesn't mean he has to screw his team; presumably he WANTS a team and presumably he recognizes that he will get rich faster and more safely with a team than without, so while he may screw everyone in town, he should be smart enough to crap where he eats...

This.

Stealing id PVP and before playing such a pc it should be cleared with every player and the gm whether they want pvp in the group.


Oracles seem to be fun. I tried to read a guide about them but they sound very complicated. I may also be wrong with that. I think a Warpriest will be easier to play for beginners like us.

If you could help me building a Warpriest (or a Battle Oracle) level 6 that would be great. *confused*

PS: That thing with stealing is cleared and we are fine with that. I think it wouldn't be realistic for a evil character to totally trust his new allys. Maybe that's something that will get better after the characters know each other.


Shyrak wrote:
So. I just asked him and he decided for a Warpriest. How do you build a Warpriest level 6 so that it fits his needs?

If he wants to be light and fast, a Sacred Fist Warpriest might be the thing. Strength-focused build, flurry of blows +4/+1/+1 with a Kama, Wisdom +1 to AC, a free hand for panther/snake/crane style, Ki Pool for even more attacks at next level.

Or, Dex-based build. Level 1: Weapon finesse. Level 3: Dervish dance. Maxed out Dex. I would go Warpriest 5/Unchained Monk 1, and take Crusader's Flurry at level 5.


I don't think he wants to fight without a weapon. But I'll ask him.

Is there an alternative with a light and fast weapon?

Edit: Alright. Just asked him. He wants to fight with a weapon.


Chuck the Scimitar Guy
Qlippoth-Spawn Tiefling Unchained Monk 1/Warpriest 5
Str 10 Dex 20+2, Con 14, Int 5 Wis 18 Cha 7 (hard min-max, but there's almost no difference between 9 Int and 5 Int).
Feats: (1) Weapon Finesse, (1) Deflect Arrows, (2) Weapon Focus: Scimitar (3) Amateur Swashbuckler (riposte), (4) Dervish Dance. (5) Crusader's flurry. Traits: Fortune's favored, that multiclass caster level trait.

Skills: Sense Motive +13, Perform (Dance) +3, 4 skill points remain.
Abilities: Flurry of Blows, Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, AC bonus; aura, blessings 5/day (luck, liberation), Sacred Weapon 1d8/+1 5 rounds, Fervor 2d6 6/day. Tiefling abilities.

Gear (16.000): +1 Keen Scimitar, +2 Dexterity Belt, wand of Mage Armor. (about 13.000)

Unbuffed, his Full Attack is +12/+12, 1d8+7, 15-20/*2. With a single swift action (fervored divine favor), it's +15/+15, 1d8+10. AC is 24 (20 touch), with the ability to deflect arrows or use Opportune Parry. Saves are +8/+9/+8 before buffs.

EDIT: Maxed out sense Motive was for Snake Style, which was since replaced.

Grand Lodge

Try the brawler class, read over its features. the only issue you may have is the lack of spell casting. In my opinion though, a brawler brings so much more to the table than a pure fighter class.

The brawler can really bring the pain with the close weapon group. Also, it's not MAD as some other classes tend to be. Technically a double +2 stat human could start with:
ST 18, Dx 18, Co 12, In 10, Ws 12, Ca 7 (assuming a 20 point build)
Grab a pair of daggers and with these stats; you don't need finesse, slashing grace, agile maneuvers. No feat hole to climb out of!
you can grab weapon focus feat. take the talent "Signature moves" for two Masterwork daggers, and RIVER RAT for a +1 trait bonus to damage with daggers. at first level, one attack +7 to hit, 1d4+5 damage (range: 6-9) at second level you can Flurry: Two attacks at, +6 to hit and 1d4+5 damage.

This idea isn't a spell casting Drow, but it still rocks quite nicely.

Option 2: Unchained rogue is really good for Two weapon fighting...
typically, ST13, Dx18, Co10, In14, Ws10, Ca13 for an elf rogue.
Why? unchained rogue starts with weapon finesse for free and at 3rd gets "Dex-to-damage" also free. 1st level two weapon fighting. again - River rat and Signature moves traits for the +1 trait damage with daggers and starting with two Masterwork daggers.
1st level, Two attacks at +3 to hit and 1d4+2 damage each (range 3-6) at 3rd, you pick up weapon focus feat. this is now two attacks, +6 to hit, and 1d4+5 damage.
Let us not forget sneak attack.


Thanks for your help but I think Warpriest it is. He wants magic. But maybe thats a good idea for MY next character. ;)

@ Casual Viking:
Why are you investing into unarmed abilities?


Adventure Path Charter Subscriber; Pathfinder Rulebook, Starfinder Adventure Path, Starfinder Roleplaying Game, Starfinder Society Subscriber

The vexing daredevil archetype for the mesmerist (Occult Adventures; just released/shipped this month; see here for a preview) makes a pretty good combatant. Painful stare (one of the mesmerist stare options) allows the mesmerist to do extra damage when attacking a target of their stare and (as mentioned in the preview) there are ways to impose additional effects/conditions when feinting. Also, the mesmerist tricks do some interesting things to action economy (essentially, they're similar to readied actions under the mesmerist's control that take effect as a free action at any time and don't restrict the mesmerist from taking other actions).


Shyrak wrote:


@ Casual Viking:
Why are you investing into unarmed abilities?

I'm not. I'm investing in the ability to make 2 attacks at full BAB with Dex to damage. Getting unarmed strike and stunning fist is incidental.


Rangers gain spells at level 4, its a bit late but it might be what you're looking for.


Warpriest of Achaekek (the red mantis, god of assassins). Level 1: WpnFinesse and WpnFocus- sawtooth sabre (longswords that 2wf like light weapons), level 3 Slashing Grace and 2wf. Level 6 dual enhancement and ? (maybe imp 2wf). It's the anti-drzzt.

Needs Dex>Wis/Con, enough str for encumbrance, enough int for skills. I'd choose trickery and either war or law/evil for blessings. Use fervor for swift divine favor and cure or inflict spells.


Don't touch the Assassin prestige class, ever. If you want to be good at assassinating people, be a ninja. You get all the poison, you get the ability to be invisible, you get useful things instead of assassin junk. If you're a Drow, you already get the poison use, so just be an Unchained Rogue or something. The big draw from Assassin is death attack, but you can pick it up as an advanced rogue talent (with a better DC), and the improvements to it can be duplicated by setting the body on fire. And staying a Rogue/Ninja gets you more rogue/ninja powers, which, as bad as they are, are better than what you get as an Assassin. Seriously, don't be an Assassin.


Warpriest of Folca (Travel and Trickery Blessings) gets free net prof, which is a great debuff.

Warpriest of Calistria (Trickery and Luck Blessings) gets whip prof, so you can do some stuff at range.

Warpriest of Achaekek (Trickery and either Death or War Blessing) gets Sawtooth Saber prof, so 2WF with longswords as light weapons with good bonuses.

Depending on Stat generation method, Str based I would go Folca: Net and Sword style. Net as first attack for a great Debuff, then swing with the sword for the rest.
Calistria I would go Dex Based, with a 13 Str just for the armor, with the Whip feat Line, and warpriest weapon damage boosts make it viable. Trip, Disarm, Steal, are all viable at range this way. Get a Dueling (PFSFG not UE version of Dueling) to get bonuses on combat maneuvers with the weapon.
Achaekek I would go Dex based with a 12-14 Str just for weight and use Piranha Strike (check with the GM to make sure that treating them as light weapons when TWF means Piranha Strike works, it is balanced but you need to have him read it the same way).

Fate's Favored trait for the +1 to Divine Favor later, and one to get Perception as a class skill.

If he is evil, make sure he has the CHA to use selective channel to avoid killing allies, or take a feat for the variant channeling stuff.

Prep Divine Favor, Magic Weapon, Shield of Faith early on.


Now that Slashing Grace doesn't allow dual wielding, straight warpriest is a no-go.. Best option for dex-based dual-wielding now would be Unchained Rogue 4.

Depending on how much magic they want, they could make do with just taking Minor Magic (probably Acid Splash) and Major Magic (probably Shield), and the drow magic SLAs..

If they like the sawtooth saber and assassin priest idea, they could go warpriest from there. Divine Favor plus Fate's Favored and maybe Magical Knack is still good, fervored inflict wounds is a better swift action attack now with sneak attack.

If the rogue talents are enough magic, Urban or Unchained Barbarian 1 for the dex-rage and martial proficiencies, at 1st level for the HP.

The Exchange

Cult of Vorg wrote:

Now that Slashing Grace doesn't allow dual wielding, straight warpriest is a no-go.. Best option for dex-based dual-wielding now would be Unchained Rogue 4.

Depending on how much magic they want, they could make do with just taking Minor Magic (probably Acid Splash) and Major Magic (probably Shield), and the drow magic SLAs..

If they like the sawtooth saber and assassin priest idea, they could go warpriest from there. Divine Favor plus Fate's Favored and maybe Magical Knack is still good, fervored inflict wounds is a better swift action attack now with sneak attack.

If the rogue talents are enough magic, Urban or Unchained Barbarian 1 for the dex-rage and martial proficiencies, at 1st level for the HP.

Unchained Rogue +1.

Unchained Rogue Thug Scout to be precise.

Tr: One of the traits that gives +1 dmg when flanking OR one of the ones that gives +1 to hit when sneak attacking (like The Vessel Between), Ancestral Weapon (Silver): gain a free Masterwork silver dagger and +1 to hit with all alch. silver weapons.

1: oh hey look, finesse and shadow strike are already covered by the class, so.... Two Weapon Fighting
2: Rogue Talent: Ki Pool
3: Deific Obedience Pharasma (oh hey look, you worship death, and in return you get +2 to hit and damage with every dagger attack, stacks with almost everything... hot damn).
** Oh and about now, because of Thug, you can start sickening people by dropping 1d6 from your sneak.
4: Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick (Vanishing Trick). Also you just got debilitating strike, and you can sneak attack on a charge. So, now you can sneak attack from stealth, invis, flank, and charging.
5: Enforcer: So you can demoralize the hell out of everyone by wielding a pair of silver Saps as backup weapons, or when you don't want to kill everything... AND hey you get the Thug bonus when you intimidate people ;-)
6: Rogue Talent: Ninja Trick (Pressure Points) -- 'cause why not add more pain?
.

So far your "spells" are only a swift action vanish for 5 rounds... but that's pretty boss. And as mentioned by others previously, Minor magic and Major magic rogue talents are available.
.
EDIT: Race -- make him a Musetouched Aasimar (+2 Dex & +2 Cha) so he can Glitterdust once a day (both offense and defense right there...), and swap his elemental resistances for Deathless Spirit (to shore up some nasty Con save threats). Also Darkvision is nice. IF he doesn't want to keep the base skill bonuses, Truespeaker is great swap for a guy like this.


Your friend sounds rather immature and not the sort that should be playing a cooperative role-playing game without some consideration on both your and his parts.
Something that needs to be absolutely clear is that it is, in fact, cooperative. Neither the other players nor the GM are his opponent. And unless you and your players know you can at least attempt to discipline yourselves, you probably shouldn't let anyone play Evil characters (although your friend kind of sounds like he wants to be a Neutral Evil character...). Two-Weapon Fighting is something that needs to have a lot of planning put into the build, Prestige Classes also take planning (they are literally classes that you can only take via multiclassing, and multiclassing can be difficult to pull off correctly), and spellcasting can be overwhelming at first, so you should encourage him to play a martial character (I think a two-handed weapon would be the easiest to go with for a beginner), or a mostly martial character that only gets up to 4th level spells (i.e. Paladin, Ranger, Bloodrager).
Drow is also a touchy race for PCs and should generally be allowed only for players you think can actually handle playing one.
Rogue Unchained and Ninja do sound okay (Martial with some tricks up their sleeve), but they may be a little bit complicated for a first-timer, and they won't be very durable. I don't know a lot about Slayer, but it does look like a good fit, although it doesn't have casting or as many tricks as the previous two. Swashbuckler would also be good as long as he understands that a lot of Deeds need at least one Panache point remaining in order to function (and that it fights with one weapon and a buckler, not TWF), and it would work pretty well with a Drow's ability score modifiers if you do think he's up to the challenge of roleplaying that race (Drow also have those Spell-like Abilities for a tiny bit of magic, and there are racial feats to make them better and have more uses). If you don't think he's up to roleplaying a Drow, Fetchling has similar ability score bonuses and is a very neat race kind of like a shadowy human, and both Human and Half-Elf go with anything.

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