Should the Avenger get Toughness at 1st level?

[SmiloDan]

Should the Avenger get Toughness at 1st level?

It would be a little something extra since it is a little unflavorful at 1st level. And it will also help its survival (since most Full BAB classes get d10s or better).

[Zauron13]

That would be neat. I'm not sure if it's the best option, flavor wise, but it does punch the build up a bit. It's what I chose for my PFS avenger, but we'll see if I need it after trying it out.

A feat for free would be nice, but it also makes it more like a fighter, which is good and bad.

I agree that an avenger might need something to pump it up to compare to the other builds. Maybe a talent at 1st, like others have said, or... I'm not sure. There needs to be something though to make it special compared to a fighter other than the social stuff.

[chbgraphicarts]

The Monk gets Improved Unarmed Strike, Stunning Fist, and a Bonus Feat at 1st Level.

The default Vigilante should get Skill Focus as a Bonus Feat, and the Avenger should get Toughness.

Or better yet a flat +2 HP at level 1, and +1 HP at every Vigilante level thereafter.

That would mathematically make it roughly equal to a d10 HD. (technically it's still less assuming max HP at each level, but at least it's more than a d8).

That'd also mean that you could take Toughness again to gain even more HP.

[Trekkie90909]

Toughness/Skill Focus/eschew materials/combat casting at level one would be a nice addition. That said now that they have social talents and a faster change time the Vigilante level 1 is looking less pathetic.

[master_marshmallow]

Just give him a d10 that way players can still take toughness and not feel cheated.

[Archomedes]

I'd like to see the avenger get a pool of temporary hit points when in vigilante identity that refresh at the end of each day. Then we could have talents that key off of that, restoring lost temp hp, increasing the pool or refreshing them for a second wind etc.

[SmiloDan]

Oooh! I really dig that temp hp idea!

[Thrawn007]

I am actually anti-beefing up the HP. Even though it's a weakness vs other full BAB classes, it makes them different. Different is good. I'd like to see something else to make up for it.

[SmiloDan]

Maybe a way to redirect an attack to another opponent? It would both "beef" them up AND add to their DPR.