I'm playing a Paladin of Mayaheine in a Greyhawk campaign. In a nutshell: the character was killed and accepted a Reincarnate spell. In the same game session he rolled d100 on the Reincarnate chart and came back as human. Several days later, the GM posted on a messageboard that my character could no longer summon his mount or lay on hands. There are other nuances but that's the gist. When I asked for an explanation, the GM said the character had become NG and that Mayaheine was offended with his reincarnation by another deity. He also stated that the Paladin made "a huge mistake" in being reincarnated.
So my question is: should Reincarnate cause loss of Paladin abilities? (This may not be the whole story in my specific case, because the GM alluded to neutral good tendencies in my character prior to the Reincarnate. Also, in case he's reading this, the GM and I have been friends for about 23 years and he's really a good GM, with several published adventures under his belt).
|
1 person marked this as a favorite.
|
Reincarnate isn't remotely grounds for a Fall.
Right. Would Mayaheine cause your pally to fall if he accepted a spell from another deity’s cleric? Of course not. I see nothing in the write up of this greyhawk deity that suggests such a thing. I assume the spell wasn’t from Tharizidun or Nerull? That might be a problem, if so.
But deities, esp new deities like Mayaheine WANT paladins, and would do much to stop one from falling.
Now, sure if you wore a Phylactery of Faithfulness (which I highly suggest for this DM) and it said “NO! then sure.
I have soem published stuff under my belt too.
I can understand that shift to Neutral Good could be reason for loss of Paladin abilities but it has nothing to do with reincarnation.
There is no inherent alignment attached to reincarnation.
Point to you GM that unless your paladin sworn a specific oath to never be returned to life by another deity then the "Mayaheine was offended with his reincarnation by another deity" is a sign of petty envy. While even Lawful Good deity can possibly feel such negative emotion, acting on such base emotion violates both the alignment and blatantly flys in the face of Mayaheine portfolio of Justice. Unless the divine patron of the caster that revived you is actual enemy of Mayaheine.
He might be a good friend of yours and all.
But "F++&-Paladins-itis" crosses all sorts of friendly and familial bounds.
In short, no, there's nothing that says you should fall for accepting help from someone else. That's beyond moronic, and anyone who suggests such a thing should be slapped upside the head repeatedly until his senses return.
I also don't think accepting a reincarnate is against Paladin code. Or are they just supposed to stay dead because that's the law of nature?
I would definitely call bull-you-know-what on this.
Rynjin wrote: ...no, there's nothing that says you should fall for accepting help from someone else. That's beyond moronic... I rarely agree with Rynjin, but I'm agreeing with Rynjin now.
Sit down with your GM and ask what it was, exactly, about returning from the grave via reincarnation that converted you to Neutral Good. Maybe it was something else - the conditions of your death, or something - that caused him to deem the alignment switch, in which case all our venting will have been aimed in a direction that doesn't exist.
Confer with the GM away from the table and see if you can straighten this out - because if it really is just a misunderstanding, the GM is more likely to reverse his ruling after some conversation with you than if you simply challenge his ruling in front of the whole group. If the problem really is an alignment switch, ask about atonement and/or a quest to restore your previous status - sliding into NG is a lot less irreversible than a fall to evil at most tables.
I don't know about published adventures...but this is pretty much the definition of screwing over a player for a petty reason. If I was treated that way I would ask to make a new character and never play a paladin again in this guys game, and if denied...politely exit the game entirely. The hobby is supposed to be fun, not a platform for somebody to exorcise his personal agendas regarding the rules on unwitting players.
That god isn't being portrayed as worthy of having paladins by this GM.
Bad form.
@ Chris Kenney, DrDeth and Drejk: it's good to get the perspective of someone who's not directly involved, thank you. We were in Greyhawk and there was a near TPK by invisible assassins. The party had the option of reviving each of the three dead characters by Raise Dead or Reincarnate. I was consulted (out of character) by the surviving party members and said I would rather go with Reincarnate because of the lower cost--we were strapped for funds. [Edit: OK, and to be completely honest my own personality, which I think I've kept distinct from the character, is more CG, and I wanted to roll on the Reincarnate chart and maybe get an ability boost. Which my character got with the human result, as his starting racial boost was to Charisma. And maybe I said "Woohoo! +2 Con!" a little too loud.] The Reincarnate spell was I believe from Obad-Hai. Most of the healing this character got was from a cleric of Pholtus.
@ Lincoln Hills: I'm looking at the ruling as a done deal because we've discussed it on the party's messageboard. But I like the advice. Atonement was cast, but didn't take care of the problem. Through the messageboard, Bendel and Astrid (at the church of Mayaheine in Hardby)told my character that he needed to complete a side quest that involves slaying the leader of the team of assassins, a former Paladin of Mayaheine, before he gets his abilities back.
The GM has suggested hashing out a detailed written code for Mayaheine's Valiants, and fleshing her out as a deity a little more (all of which is cool). The thing is, I felt like the fall was unpredictable and I'm worried it will happen again.
@ Lazurin Arborlon: I wanted to start a new character and rolled one, but the GM is resisting b/c he's written him into the upcoming adventures.
Aw jeez - could it be that the GM stripped paladinhood as a plot hook? That is... what is that saying the kids are always saying today? That is... weaksauce, that's what it is. Weaksauce.
Rynjin wrote: He might be a good friend of yours and all.
But "F**&-Paladins-itis" crosses all sorts of friendly and familial bounds.
Yeah, I think you may have hit on something. Smite wreaks havoc with BBEGs. I don't agree with your epithets for the GM--he's actually very intelligent--but I don't think we have compatible visions of acceptable Paladin behavior.
Smart people can do dumb things.
I'm not saying your GM is a dick. But in this particular instance he's BEING a dick unless there's some other reason for the alignment shift.
Hexam, gimping/ maiming your character for no reason and forcing you play him in that state with no explanation and no recourse is pretty much banned by the Geneva convention.
Seriously unless there is more to this story that you have over looked or neglected to tell us, this guy either has an agenda about Paladin's that your getting unwittingly buffaloed by, or he is the type that gets his jollies by screwing over players. Either way making you play a feat-less fighter for the duration of a campaign because your "written into the story" is an all time crappy excuse.
Recent threads in 3.5/d20/OGL
|
