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The evangelist is in Inner Sea Gods starting on page 198. It's interesting because it's a 10 level prestige class but from level 2 onward you get all the class features of your existing class. It just adds power overtop in exchange for one weak level (and a so-so feat).
The vigilante really wants to be an everything class. It's a rogue with sneak attack (that deals less damage), an inquisitor (without judgement), a fighter (with lighter armour), and a magus (without spell strike). So much of the class is just not remarkable and just copies what other classes have to offer.
The only things unique to the vigilante are it's dual identity, some weak reputation features, and it's ability to surprise people pretty much once an encounter. Everything else feels like it's borrowed from another class.
The vigilante is trying hard to make itself fit into every role in the game, because the theme of the character is so broad. But this makes me wonder: is the vigilante *really* a class? Or just a really flexible prestige class?
I really feel the vigilante is being presented as a class because it's expected, because the other Ultimate books had a class.
The vigilante really wants to be the superhero type character. But what's a first level superhero? First level is the stuff that takes place before they don the costume, when they're just getting started. It's the first hour of Batman Begins, the first dozen episodes of Daredevil, when Spider-man is still trying to be a wrestler, and the like. They have to *earn* the costume.
This really makes the vigilante seem better suited to being a prestige class. The first 5-ish levels is training to become the hero.
I known prestige classes were awkward in 3.5e with their endless requirements. But Paizo has shown they can do better. This could have light pre-reqs - such as a vigilante themed feat - so anyone can get in. (Heck, Dual Identity could even be the feat.) It could even be 15 levels to really allow someone to be a vigilante for most of their career.
Thoughts?
I've been thinking along the same lines. The thing is, superheroes occupy such a broad range of concepts that really only have the one thing in common - that they have a secret identity so they can fight crime whilst still living a somewhat-normal life at other times.
Alot of the concepts are already made possible through other classes that flat-out do it better (e.g. Shield Champion for Captain America, Unchained Monk for Luke Cage/Iron Fist), with the exception of the dual-identity aspect of the vigilante, which really helps to flesh out and facilitate the concept of living dual lives.
I mean, I'm playtesting a vigilante for the fun of it, but I do find that unless the final version of the class offers something more unique, I might not be playing it very often. I find that I am very often asking myself whether I should just dip 1 level for dual identity and social grace, since those 2 class features alone are sufficient to facilitate the secret identity concept.
There might be a niche filled, however, if the vigilante can take cross-specialisation talents, to reflect the diverse methods employed by vigilantes without having to multi-class across several classes. A multi-disciplinary class with a specialisation in disguise.
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I've been thinking along the same lines. The thing is, superheroes occupy such a broad range of concepts that really only have the one thing in common - that they have a secret identity so they can fight crime whilst still living a somewhat-normal life at other times.
Ahem...
Tony Stark
Reed Richards
Sue Richards
Ben Grimm
Johnny Storm
James "Logan" Howlett
Orora Munroe
Hank McCoy
Dr. Steven Strange
Capt. Steve Rogers
John Stewart
Diana of Themyscira
Roy Digby
Ray Palmer
Thor Odinson
...
I could really keep going on here...
And yet they do occupy a very diverse range of concepts. And furthermore, some of the guys you mentioned actually do have alternate personas or had them before their identities became too widely known for them to bother hiding.
If you deny that the secret identities are a common element amongst many superheroes, then I'd ask what you think the civil war storyline was all about.
But that also detracts fro the main issue, which is, do character concepts with secret identities tend to be better-done by taking a single level dip in the vigilante class then looking elsewhere to flesh out their crime-fighting abilities? If so, then there are strong reasons for considering making the vigilante a prestige class rather than a base-class.
Jason has said they aren't interested in changing the Vigilante from a Base Class. Regardless of the positive aspects or advantages of such alternate ideas, it's isn't going to happen. This is a playtest of a Base Class.
I think people should direct their efforts toward working within that framework, unfortunate as they may feel that is....
Jason has said they aren't interested in changing the Vigilante from a Base Class. Regardless of the positive aspects or advantages of such alternate ideas, it's isn't going to happen. This is a playtest of a Base Class.
I think people should direct their efforts toward working within that framework, unfortunate as they may feel that is....
Did not know this. Thanks for the info.
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The evangelist is in Inner Sea Gods starting on page 198. It's interesting because it's a 10 level prestige class but from level 2 onward you get all the class features of your existing class. It just adds power overtop in exchange for one weak level (and a so-so feat).
This is an excellent idea. Instead of being a prestige class though, and i know this would be hard to do, but a general archtype that could be applied to all classes.
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Jason has said they aren't interested in changing the Vigilante from a Base Class. Regardless of the positive aspects or advantages of such alternate ideas, it's isn't going to happen. This is a playtest of a Base Class.
I think people should direct their efforts toward working within that framework, unfortunate as they may feel that is....
This makes me sad. They radically changed their approach to the gunslinger very based on feedback after all.
I imagine a big reason is archetypes and the space allotted for archetypes. You can't have archetypes for a prestige class as easily.
