Abusing Cruel Weapons for Hit Points


Rules Questions

Grand Lodge

For the record, I was already planning on getting a cruel amulet of mighty fists for my Eidolon, and I am not planning on actually doing what I am going to suguest, but it was pointed out to me that it is possible, and so I am curious.

Cruel wrote:
When the wielder strikes a creature that is frightened, shaken, or panicked with a cruel weapon, that creature becomes sickened for 1 round. When the wielder uses the weapon to knock unconscious or kill a creature, he gains 5 temporary hit points that last for 10 minutes.
Pets wrote:
Centipede (House) 1cp, 3oz

Before we go in somewhere dangerous, feed my Eidolon a live house centipede. Repeat as needed. My eidolon gets +5 hp before each combat.


You'd have to intimidate it each time though right?

Sczarni

Centipede is a bad example, but other pets with Ints of 1 or 2 can be cheap as well.


No. Those are two separate sentences.
Only sickened effect depends on pre-existing conditions.
Temp HPs just require to kill or knock un-conscious. It can be centipede.

Grand Lodge

Sorry, I meant to bold that part.

Quandary is correct, the hp is separate from the sicken. (Sicken is the part I got it for. I figured the HP was a bonus, given the HP poor nature of eidolons, but I was only thinking about in combat.)

Grand Lodge

Further question. from a PFS perspective, does releasing a centipede for my eidolon to eat constitute having two combat pets?


Well, I guess if they have to roll Init to see who eats who first, yes. ;-)

Grand Lodge

Okay, so what I have to do is get my wife's character to buy them.

:)

Side note: toads, more bang for your buck. A little more expensive, but they don't have poison, or (for that matter) an offensive attack, and at speed 5 and 2 hp, there is not chance they will get away.


I wouldn't let it fly in a PFS game.

As you've noted, the single combat pet rule could be used as justification.

But the real reason is that abilities like these have the unwritten assumption that the target is a legitimate combat "threat".


Just release the centipede. If you no longer own it and you 'let it go' then it's not your pet anymore.


that is nothing.

i made a loop for souldrinker prestige class that let you get tons of temp hp if you take a few min before combat.
basickly take 2 levels in it. then use summon monster 1 for a pony( 2 hd animal.so work for the soul point part). then drain it for 2 soul points and 10 stacking hp(the power says you get the temp hp for each negetive level ). then use the 2 soul points to regain the spell you cast. you lose nothing more then a few rounds(3/4 depand if your "allowed" to tell it to lay still and it allowes a coup de grace or not, mixed votes on this one.personly after using ponies as trap detectors, this is the obvius next step. considerit laying his head on the choping board kind of helpless) and the material it cost to cast a 1st level summon mosnter spell. asuming casting the spell is 1 round and hitting the horse takes 2 (unless you crit\coup the grace) then 1 more round to regain spell you can use the loop every 3(or 4) rounds giving you about 16(/12) loops in 5 min netting you 160(120) temp hp and you get your spell back so not even lost that. the hp last one hour so if yo uwant yo ucna spend mor ethen 5 min(like 30 min if yo uare prewarned) and get a lot more. (30 min will net 1000\760 temp hp for at least 30 min before some start to fade)

this is also an easy cheat for crafting free. as each soul point is considered a standard (100 gp worth) soul that you can use for crafting. so you can spend a few summon mosnter spells at the end of the day to gain all the cost you need to craft(say youe do normal magical crafting at 1000 base cost each day, no increase do to higher dc or valet familier, which your cacodaemon can totaly get for you). and that mean you need 500 gp each day. that is 2.5 summon monsters(5 for each two days as the points can be used a day later as they don't vanished if you have some spare).

hell if the gm tries to say it wont work with summoned mosnters(which would some what nerf the ability as it would claim that summoned monsters are imune to negetive levels? but lets say he goes with, when the monster vanish so does it ligering life force.or whatever) a donkey which has the same states as a pony cost only 7 gp. go get a herd...

also at levels of 14+ you can use your barbarian team mate (if he allows you) as a source and regain the resteration spell you use AND the material cost to cast it (from soul points use) with extra for you to craft with. do notice this will need you to have a VERY large soul pool.


I thought up something along the same lines for a Hungry Ghost Monk. They can pretty much get away with killing a lot of bugs or other weak creatures.

And another trick was to play with the word "kill". Just dropping something doesn't kill it. First, all damage would be "non-lethal" as to knock someone out (free HP). He would then be the one to finish off creatures at the end of combat (more free HP). He was not a "good" guy.


Line your pets up, then use Great Cleave


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Line your pets up, then use Great Cleave

And if they're all turtles you can set up a simple small barricade to keep them in a nice handly circle around you as you release them, maintaining the 'only one pet out at a time' thing.

My question is, do the 5 temp HP actually stack, or is this an instance of 'same source overlaps.'


Ah yes, the old killing a bag of squirrels trick. Classic.

Expect GM retribution if you actually attempted it, at least if I were the GM.


Claxon wrote:

Ah yes, the old killing a bag of squirrels trick. Classic.

Expect GM retribution if you actually attempted it, at least if I were the GM.

Wouldn't it be better to just rule that they don't stack and let the player have his 5 temporary hit point buffer?

Dark Archive

the logistics of carrying around a bag of toads seems like to much effort. bags of holding and havesacks dont have air afterall.


Bag of holding/handy haversack + decanter of endless water + school of fish? (May be hard to catch them) Handy haversack lets you specify an item right? Call for a fish.

Grand Lodge

kyrt-ryder wrote:
Scott Wilhelm wrote:
Line your pets up, then use Great Cleave

And if they're all turtles you can set up a simple small barricade to keep them in a nice handly circle around you as you release them, maintaining the 'only one pet out at a time' thing.

My question is, do the 5 temp HP actually stack, or is this an instance of 'same source overlaps.'

No. temporary Hit points do not stack.


They do from separate sources, just not from the same source.

In this case I'd say the source is the weapon, aka no stacking.

Grand Lodge

Komoda wrote:

I thought up something along the same lines for a Hungry Ghost Monk. They can pretty much get away with killing a lot of bugs or other weak creatures.

And another trick was to play with the word "kill". Just dropping something doesn't kill it. First, all damage would be "non-lethal" as to knock someone out (free HP). He would then be the one to finish off creatures at the end of combat (more free HP). He was not a "good" guy.

That doesn't work for hungry ghost monk.

non-lethal damage does not reduce the creatures hit points, and the monk needs to reduce it's hit points to 0.


To kill them, not to knock them unconscious. Once unconscious, each coup de grace is an automatic critical hit. Critical hits, and death, both give the Hungry Ghost Monk Ki points, or HP etc.

Yeah, I didn't spell it all out like I should have. It has been a while since I have done it, but it works so that you can get a few uses out of each combatant.

Of course, many, myself included, feel this is an abuse of the rules so we just set it up so I would be the one to finish off each opponent and I would get one "proc" per NPC, once the battle was over.

Grand Lodge

Just do a survival check to find local rats, eat them as needed.


FLite wrote:
Komoda wrote:

I thought up something along the same lines for a Hungry Ghost Monk. They can pretty much get away with killing a lot of bugs or other weak creatures.

And another trick was to play with the word "kill". Just dropping something doesn't kill it. First, all damage would be "non-lethal" as to knock someone out (free HP). He would then be the one to finish off creatures at the end of combat (more free HP). He was not a "good" guy.

That doesn't work for hungry ghost monk.

non-lethal damage does not reduce the creatures hit points, and the monk needs to reduce it's hit points to 0.

Non-lethal can deal hp damage if the target has already suffered the max nonlethal amount. If it has 14 max HP, it can take 14 nonlethal, and any additional nonlethal damage dealt is applied to HP.

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