Any one got good magus arcane archer build ?


Advice


Any one got good magus arcane archer build ?


I have a few builds I have been toying with. What sort of character are you after?

Switch hitter? Do you want to focus solely on the bow? Do you want to do something interesting even if it means a little reduction on your spellcasting? Do you want actual magus levels or will the VMC Magus be sufficient on another chasis? How far into the build do you want to 'feel' like an arcane archer?


They don't synergize well if your goal is to focus exclusively on a bow.

Spellstrike and Spell Combat normally only work with melee weapons. Even the myrmadarch archetype only changes spell strike to work with ranged weapons, meaning your stuck casting spells as a standard action.

And, generally speaking the value of Arcane Archer is that it lets you cast spells through your bow into the arrows. Which myrmadarch already kind of does.

My recommendation if you were going to do it would be magus(myrmadarch) X/arcane archer 2/ eldritch knight X. Or just the magus levels and the 2 levels of arcane archer. More than 2 levels of arcane archer and you lose a lot of spell casting progress, and the benefits really aren't very good.

Scarab Sages

Grenadier Alchemist.


What exactly are you looking for, how open is your GM to allowing a modification of Spell Combat to "ranged weapon" instead of "melee weapon", and are you open to either playing a Kasatha or convincing your GM to allow you to use a revolver?


What I am thinking is elf switch hitter .


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The Myrmidarch is basically the arcane archer as a base class. Even with the problems the archetype has, the arcane archer loses so much and gains so little that it's barely worth playing. Maybe a 2 level dip to gain imbue arrows would be worth it -- IF the magus spell list had any decent area affect spells. Silence? Nope. Anti-magic field? Nope. Daylight and Darkness, I guess, aren't terrible things to be able to pop onto an arrow and fire a long distance, but they're not worth it.

If you want to cast spells through your bow and arrows, just stick with Myrmidarch magus. It's not the greatest, and you'll need to ask your GM to make a ruling on whether you can do spell combat with a bow instead of a one-handed melee weapon, but its better than the frustration you'd get at trying to make a magus/arcane archer work.

If you must do Arcane archer, straight Wizard will give you more area affect spells that are actually useful.


From the magus Myrmidarch (Archetype)

Ranged Spellstrike (Su): At 4th level, a myrmidarch can use spellstrike to cast a single-target touch attack ranged spell and deliver it through a ranged weapon attack. Even if the spell can normally affect multiple targets, only a single missile, ray, or effect accompanies the attack.

This is addition to normal spell strike with Melee weapons

From the arcane archer

Imbue Arrow (Su): At 2nd level, an arcane archer gains the ability to place an area spell upon an arrow. When the arrow is fired, the spell's area is centered where the arrow lands, even if the spell could normally be centered only on the caster. This ability allows the archer to use the bow's range rather than the spell's range. A spell cast in this way uses its standard casting time and the arcane archer can fire the arrow as part of the casting. The arrow must be fired during the round that the casting is completed or the spell is wasted. If the arrow misses, the spell is wasted.


Go look at the Magus spell list and see how many area affect spells they get.


That combination doesn't work, unless you can cast two spells simultaneously-- not within the same round, but literally simultaneously. Ranged touch spells can't hold charges, so you have to make the Ranged Spellstrike as soon as you finish casting your ranged touch spell, which precludes using the same arrow for Imbue Arrow.

Now, it's not totally impossible to cast two spells simultaneously. You need gestalt (Sorcerer) and 3.5 material (a spell called Arcane Fusion). But that does put it well out of reach in a standard game.


Not trying to do both in same round, but in same fight.


Ranged Spell strike with the Myrmidarch archetype would allow at level 11, a certain spell like ... scorching ray, to fire one ray of 4d6 fire with each arrow (up to three times) for that spell. This is just one spell.

Also, Spell blending arcana can add needed spells to the Magus list.

Another spell that is fun ... Detonate. Spell is centered on you. Imbue that into an arrow and fire it.

I'll work up an elven switch hitter Myrmidarch magus/arcane archer build.


Ranged Spellstrike, at level 11, with Scorching Ray, still only lets you fire one arrow-- and by extension one ray.

This is one of the reasons why the Myrmidarch is called a broken archetype: the writer didn't know how the abilities actually worked, and it shows.

See, the 11th-level version of Ranged Spellstrike notes that you can "deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full attack action".

There is no possible way for the Myrmidarch to cast a spell and make a full attack action with a ranged weapon. None. Spell Combat doesn't work-- it's melee only. Held charges don't work-- you can't hold ranged spells. Even if you're casting Scorching Ray as a swift action, you cannot hold the charge even long enough to undertake a new action.

A GM can houserule it to effectiveness, but under the rules the archetype is broken and actually terrible at ranged combat.


To be exact, this is the language used:

Quote:
At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack when using a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects)

You are correct that the wording is not as precise as it should be. A reasonable DM could easily correct the language to:

Quote:
At 11th level, a myrmidarch using a multiple-target spell with this ability may deliver one ray or line of effect with each attack as a full-attack action, up to the maximum allowed by the spell (in the case of ray effects)

This resolves the issue by replacing two words with one. I still don't feel this minor issue makes the entire archetype 'terrible at ranged combat'. It can perform just as well as any other class that doesn't channel spells into its arrows.


Aye, just as well as any other class...

... that has 3/4ths BAB
... that doesn't get a lot of accuracy boosts, in a style that taxes accuracy.
... that has no useful abilities that support ranged combat*
... that has massive incentives to engage in melee combat

So the Myrmidarch performs pretty terribly at ranged combat unless the GM is willing to fix them.

*Ranged Spellstrike adding 4D6 makes it mathematically worse than a full attack for an actual ranged attacker, even before you consider the resource costs. Using spells that are actually good means probably breaking out Reach Spell, which makes it a much harsher investment than straight Spellstrike, reinforcing the next point.

They make okay switch hitters, and in the back of my head is a setup that uses the throwing-weapons-oriented Magus Arcana and the occasional Reach Spell to make a melee Magus who could chuck a dagger at your face while closing distance or just to refresh arcane pool points. But the item and feat taxes make it... not good.


kestral287 wrote:


... that has 3/4ths BAB

Noted. They get one less attack than a full base attack class. Speed on your weapon or hasted assault help here.

Quote:
... that doesn't get a lot of accuracy boosts, in a style that taxes accuracy.

Right. Arcane Pool. Weapon Training. True Strike. Arcane Accuracy.

Quote:
... that has no useful abilities that support ranged combat*

Noted. Counting as a fighter for fighter combat feats can help.

Quote:
... that has massive incentives to engage in melee combat

Indeed it does. Myrmidarch Magus make great switch hitters, especially with their incentives to wear heavier armor than most archers.

Quote:
So the Myrmidarch performs pretty terribly at ranged combat unless the GM is willing to fix them.

It is not the BEST!!!1!1!! at ranged combat but it can be very good. Our definitions of good maybe quite different, however.


If the campaign goes on for long enough, Arcane Archer might catch up with and even surpass Myrmidarch, since you can be an AA Wizard.

Back in the SLA-early entry days, you could be a Aasimar and become an Eldritch Knight by level 3, taking levels in EK until you got your +6 BAB then start taking levels in Arcane Archer. Alas, I never did it.

Eldritch Knight might not be such a bad way to go even now. Take 1 level in Fighter, 5 levels in Wizard, then 3 levels in EK until you can start taking Arcane Archer levels. Its a long time to get where you are going, but for the first 6 levels, you are a Wizard with a few extra hit points who can shoot arrows when the enemy is too far away for Magic Missile, and that's not so bad for the cost of 1 caster level. Plus, you can do this with PFS Core. By level 12 you'd cast spells as a level 9 Wizard. Your BAB would be +9, and you would have Imbue Arrow and Elemental Arrow. Compare that with the RAI Arcane Archer: Lv 6 Fighter/Lv1 Wizard/Lv5 AA. CL4, BAB +11, and add Distance and Seeker arrows. And I think a Fighter/Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer compares favorably with a Magus by level 12, since a level 9 Wizard is a more powerful caster than a level 12 Magus let alone a level 12 Myrmidarch, who has Diminished Spellcasting. Imbue Arrow is comparable to Ranged Spellstrike, maybe a little better.

The most martial way to become an Arcane Archer might be as a Ranger/AA. 6 levels in Ranger, then Arcane Archer, and also the fastest way to start taking levels in AA. By level 12, you cast spells as a level 10 Ranger, not very good, but you get a BAB of +12, and you get Phase Arrow, the Ranged Touch Attack. And the levels in Ranger will let you develop powerfully as an Archer.

It's hard to beat Grenadier/Alchemist, though. Less diversity in spells, but lots of blasting power and lots of self-buffing. You might have to use a Crossbow instead of a longbow unless you take 1 level in Fighter, or be an Elf, who are automatically proficient in Bows. Take Explosive Missile and Fast Bombs, and bring the thunder down!

The Exchange

This is mine. Ftr Archer 4, Myrmidarch 7, Arcane archer 2. Then back to Myr or keep going AA or get weapon training at F5. I havent decided on which way is best yet.

Feats WF comp LB, Deadly Aim, Rapid Shot, Cluster Shot, imp familiar, Imp crit

Fighter BF - PBS, PS, Weapon Spec CLB
Myrmidarch BF - combat reflexes, Weapon Training
Archer 3 (ranged disarm)
Arcana familiar

Ranged disarm with true strike is fun. I dont see a big deal about adding a single ray (unless you are moving) vs a full attack with arrows. Imbue arrow at AA2 is for obscuring mist and some burning hands effects. Its fun, tactical, and my elven supremacist defers talking to non elves to his pseudodragon "translator/secretay"

"Hello this is Silver's office. Mr. Silver is busy now, please leave a message and he will return your communication at his earliest convenience."


-3/4ths BAB does not just mean "one less attack".

It means a to-hit loss of -1 to -5. On top of Rapid Shot, and possibly Deadly Aim (maybe-- Power Attack is mathematically a trap for a straight Magus, Deadly Aim might be the same. I'd have to run numbers).

It means no qualifying for the huge number of good bow feats (Manyshot, Clustered Shot, Point-Blank Master) until level 8. At best, you burn your level 11 bonus feat and get them all then (which also means burning your level 7 feat for Weapon Specialization, incidentally-- which also means Weapon Focus, which when you add in Point-Blank Shot/Precise Shot/Rapid Shot means that this is all but one of your feats). Compared to Fighters, Slayers, or Rangers... not so hot there.

And yes, on top of that-- it means one less attack. Sure, you can add Speed to your bow. So can everybody else.

-Accuracy boosters are a large concern, as:

The Arcane Pool scales downward in effect, as you become more ready to add special abilities and less ready to add straight numbers. Alternately, you're intentionally keeping your straight numbers low compared to the Archer Fighter, which means it's not actually boosting accuracy above your peers. The truth is somewhere in between; an effect that's somewhat useful at all levels but overall downward scaling.

Weapon Training adds a +3, which means that-- at 18th level-- it makes up for 60% of your BAB deficit. That's... not exciting. Helpful, but not exciting.

True Strike only works for one attack and takes up both a resource and-- more significantly-- your action economy.

Arcane Accuracy takes another limited resource. Note that the Myrmidarcher will tend to have a lower arcane pool due to needing to support both Str and Dex alongside Int-- something's got to give there, so you either sacrifice your damage output, even more accuracy, or your arcane pool. If you sacrifice damage output, you lose much of the reason to go archery. If you sacrifice accuracy you reinforce an existing problem. So... you probably sacrifice your arcane pool.

So yes, it's solvable in the short-term, but in the long run only by expending limited resources every round.

-Counting as a Fighter for feats does... very little. Weapon Specialization leads to Point-Blank Master. And... what else? What does the Myrmidarch actually have, as a class feature, that incentivizes ranged combat?

If we were talking an Investigator, leveraging the 1/2 level static accuracy/damage bonus, the mutagen stat boosts, and even Combat Inspiration, then yes. We have a reason to go for ranged combat.

But we're not-- what does the Myrmidarch have built in that actually creates an incentive to shoot somebody instead of stabbing them and using one of the single most powerful class features in the game?

-Myrmidarchers actually have no incentives to wear armor any heavier than anyone else. They're going to run up against Dex concerns just like the archer-fighter

Honestly... try building at, oh, level 7 and see how it performs compared to a melee Myrmidarch. It's not great. Or I'd suggest level 11, but at that point range ceases to matter to a melee Myrmidarch so it becomes really pointless.

They'd be fantastic with thrown weapon switch-hitting if that could work without all of the silly item taxes-- the Throwing Arcana can help them keep a large arcane pool, Precise Strike with daggers or the like can keep damage up, and really you only need Quick Draw to be decent at throwing things. But the need for a Blinkback Belt (and thus further GM houseruling in letting you also get a stat belt) hurts.


I've had an interesting idea...

Zen Archer Monk 6 / Wizard 3 / Arcane Archer 3 / Eldritch Knight 8

Wait for it....

Fractional BAB and VMC Magus

The Zen Archer monk is notoriously front loaded with most, if not all, the main archery feats that you want. This leaves you able to sacrifice a few feats for the VMC Magus.

Finding a way to get WIS to melee attacks is suggested. Ki Diversity would be a preferred method as you don't want to be in melee often. Alternatively, You can substitute witch levels instead and take the Hex Channeler archetype to get the prerequisites for Guided Hand. That method is feat intensive though...

Broad Study would be required. Ki Arcana would be awesome as well, since if you have channel, you can get Ki Channel to recharge your Ki with channel energy (and effectively, your Arcane Pool too).

Anyway, just brainstorming over here. That's a lot to try and pull off.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:

If the campaign goes on for long enough, Arcane Archer might catch up with and even surpass Myrmidarch, since you can be an AA Wizard.

Back in the SLA-early entry days, you could be a Aasimar and become an Eldritch Knight by level 3, taking levels in EK until you got your +6 BAB then start taking levels in Arcane Archer. Alas, I never did it.

Eldritch Knight might not be such a bad way to go even now. Take 1 level in Fighter, 5 levels in Wizard, then 3 levels in EK until you can start taking Arcane Archer levels. Its a long time to get where you are going, but for the first 6 levels, you are a Wizard with a few extra hit points who can shoot arrows when the enemy is too far away for Magic Missile, and that's not so bad for the cost of 1 caster level. Plus, you can do this with PFS Core. By level 12 you'd cast spells as a level 9 Wizard. Your BAB would be +9, and you would have Imbue Arrow and Elemental Arrow. Compare that with the RAI Arcane Archer: Lv 6 Fighter/Lv1 Wizard/Lv5 AA. CL4, BAB +11, and add Distance and Seeker arrows. And I think a Fighter/Eldritch Knight/Arcane Archer compares favorably with a Magus by level 12, since a level 9 Wizard is a more powerful caster than a level 12 Magus let alone a level 12 Myrmidarch, who has Diminished Spellcasting. Imbue Arrow is comparable to Ranged Spellstrike, maybe a little better.

The most martial way to become an Arcane Archer might be as a Ranger/AA. 6 levels in Ranger, then Arcane Archer, and also the fastest way to start taking levels in AA. By level 12, you cast spells as a level 10 Ranger, not very good, but you get a BAB of +12, and you get Phase Arrow, the Ranged Touch Attack. And the levels in Ranger will let you develop powerfully as an Archer.

It's hard to beat Grenadier/Alchemist, though. Less diversity in spells, but lots of blasting power and lots of self-buffing. You might have to use a Crossbow instead of a longbow unless you take 1 level in Fighter, or be an Elf, who are automatically proficient in Bows. Take...

How are you an arcane archer as a ranger? It's arcane.

I'm planning to make an arcane archer. I will be an elven bard. Voice of the wild. Singing will off set the lack of BAB, and increase the damage of the bow (something other classes won't enjoy). Then ranger spells like gravity bow from level one to increase the longbow (long bow since I'm elven). Sure no fireball arrows. But druids and bards have a few aoe to make it fun.

Plus if I remember right arrows of death work best with bards anyways.


Rangers cast arcane spells by the time they are level 6.

Personally, I'd give the arrows of Greater Slaying to the Grenadier Alchemist. With the Potion Glutton Feat, they can drink their Extracts of True Strike as a Swift action, firing off an arrow with +20 every round. Plus they explode. Exploding arrows are cool.


Not in pathfinder they don't. Rangers are 1-4 divine casters, similar to paladins. Are you using some 3rd party archetype that changes their spell type to arcane?

Also, potion glutton works on potions only, not extracts.


And Alchemists are not casters so they can't go into Arcane Archer on their own anyway.


Paladin of Baha-who? wrote:

Not in pathfinder they don't. Rangers are 1-4 divine casters, similar to paladins. Are you using some 3rd party archetype that changes their spell type to arcane?

Also, potion glutton works on potions only, not extracts.

Huh, I was mistaken about Rangers.

What makes you think Potion Glutton only works on potions? The description says it works on any potable. Has there been an FAQ or something?


DeathlessOne wrote:

I've had an interesting idea...

Zen Archer Monk 6 / Wizard 3 / Arcane Archer 3 / Eldritch Knight 8

Wait for it....

Fractional BAB and VMC Magus

The Zen Archer monk is notoriously front loaded with most, if not all, the main archery feats that you want. This leaves you able to sacrifice a few feats for the VMC Magus.

Finding a way to get WIS to melee attacks is suggested. Ki Diversity would be a preferred method as you don't want to be in melee often. Alternatively, You can substitute witch levels instead and take the Hex Channeler archetype to get the prerequisites for Guided Hand. That method is feat intensive though...

Broad Study would be required. Ki Arcana would be awesome as well, since if you have channel, you can get Ki Channel to recharge your Ki with channel energy (and effectively, your Arcane Pool too).

Anyway, just brainstorming over here. That's a lot to try and pull off.

That is an interesting idea. One of the cool things about Zen Archer is that they do Monk Unarmed Strike Damage with their arrows, yes? So if you are multiclassing, you should take Monastic Legacy so that your damage will continue to grow.


I have always thought of Arcane Archer as more of a martial class than a spellcasting one. They way I see it go full martial aside from one level for an arcane caster. Take 2 levels of Arcane Archer and the rest into Eldritch Knight for a strong build. When you finish with EK, go back to AA.

As for the Zen Archer Monk concept, my son has tried it and it can work very well. Some suggestions:

3 levels of Zen Archer Monk is a decent cut off point. At that level you are basically getting Weapon Focus, Rapid Shot ("Flurry of Bows" as my son likes to call it) and a feat (probably Precise Shot because you probably took Point Blank Shot at first level) for free. Perfect Strike isn't overly useful but a nice perk. What you are really after is your level 3 abilities: Zen Archery which allows you to apply Wis to hit and Point Blank Master as early entry (usually only Fighters can take this and only after 5th level) which allows you to not provoke when firing in melee.

4th level will net you some extra attacks per day with Ki if you want to go that deep. You need to think about at this point which is better for you though: feats that give static bonuses all the time or per day abilities. For me I think taking a couple of Fighter levels is better to meet the BAB requirements of AA. 3 levels of Weapon Master Fighter will get you 2 bonus feats which you will really need and Weapon Training so you can use Gloves of Dueling. Bonus attacks only matter when you can full attack anyway which you can't do with Imbue Arrow. And doing so expends a resource.

For your arcane level I recommend Empyreal Bloodline Sorcerer to stack Wis as a primary stat. This makes Wis apply to hit, AC, Will Saves and spell save DCs and bonus spells. If you take 4th level of Monk it also helps determine your Ki Pool. It decreases the need to focus on Dex and combines your spell casting stat with your accuracy stat and more. MAD issues are a big problem for many Arcane Archers and this helps that problem. It has it's downfalls but I feel the benefits outweigh them.


Rangers/Slayers also get easy Point Blank Master.

I do agree that the Zen Archer is a solid chassis to go into Arcane Archer. I'm honestly not sold on Fighter though; not for more than one level at 6th, and that only if you really want both Manyshot and Clustered Shots online in short order. What bonus feats are you really pushing for from three Fighter levels?


kestral287 wrote:

Rangers/Slayers also get easy Point Blank Master.

I do agree that the Zen Archer is a solid chassis to go into Arcane Archer. I'm honestly not sold on Fighter though; not for more than one level at 6th, and that only if you really want both Manyshot and Clustered Shots online in short order. What bonus feats are you really pushing for from three Fighter levels?

Feats are a nice side effect from the looks of it. The main draw of Fighter 3, is being weapon master and getting weapon training +1. This is then increased to +3 to hit/damage with the gloves of dueling. This totals to at least +6 hit (+3 BAB, +3 weapon training) and +3 damage, before adding feats.


kestral: Fighter is more for 3rd level Weapon Master to get Weapon Training to gain that extra +3 hit and damage from Gloves of Dueling. Two extra feats are nothing to shake a stick at either.

Or yeah... in other words, exactly what Skylancer4 said.


Scott Wilhelm wrote:
DeathlessOne wrote:


Zen Archer Monk 6 / Wizard 3 / Arcane Archer 3 / Eldritch Knight 8

Fractional BAB and VMC Magus

That is an interesting idea. One of the cool things about Zen Archer is that they do Monk Unarmed Strike Damage with their arrows, yes? So if you are multiclassing, you should take Monastic Legacy so that your damage will continue to grow.

Unfortunately, the Zen Archer Monk never gains the still mind class feature, so Monastic Legacy is not an option. I found that out when I tried to give Vows and the Quinggong powers to the Zen Archer build I was working on.

I saw a good bit of synergy with Spellstrike and Hexstrike.
Cast spell -> Punch target -> Deliver spell -> Swift Action deliver Hex. If you have a Hex that deals damage, well done. Might make up for the lack of opportunity for a full attack if you ever get in melee. You have a lot of options for swift actions with the build. Extra attack (ki point), Arcane pool activation, hexstrike activation.

The witch has many, many interesting touch spells that could work with Broad Study but does receive some of the Magus' signature spells if the right patron is chosen (Elements).

Let's see... I'd build it like this:

Spoiler:

Half-Elf
Lawful Neutral
Worships Irori

Str 14
Dex 12
Con 12
Int 15
Wis 17 (15+2 racial)
Cha 12

Magic Knack (witch)
Magical Lineage (shocking Grasp)

Monk 1: +1/4 Ki Pool
Bonus Feat (Precise Shot), AC Bonus +0, Flurry of Bows, Perfect Strike, Unarmed Strike 1d6, Level 1 feat (Point Blank Shot)

Monk 2: +1/2 Ki Pool
Bonus Feat (Combat Reflexes), Way of the Bow (Weapon Focus)

Monk 3: +3/4 Ki Pool
Fast Movement +10ft, Point Blank Master, Zen Archery, Arcane Pool +1

Witch 1: +1 skill point
Hex (Blossoming Fire), Patron (Elements), Familiar (your choice),

Witch 2: +2 skill points
Channel Energy +1d6, 5th Level feat (Ki Channel)

Monk 4: +1 Ki Pool
Ac Bonus +1, Ki Pool, Ki Archery, Ki Defense, Ki Flurry, Ki Speed, Ki Strike (magic), Slow Fall 20ft, Unarmed Strike 1d8

Witch 3: +3 skill points
Familiar (Deliver touch spells), Arcane Pool +2, Magus Arcana (Ki Arcana)

Monk 5: +1 skill point, +1 Ki Pool
High Jump, Ki Arrows

Monk 6: +2 skill points, +1 Ki Pool
BOnus Feat (improved Precise shot), Fast movement +20ft, Slow Fall 30ft, Way of the Bow (Weapon Spec).

--------------------------

At this point, you full qualify for Arcane Archer, granting you prof with all martial weapons. Take 3 levels to get 3rd level spells for witch and jump into Eldritch Knight for the remainder of your career.

Level 9 feat: Ki Diveristy (wis to attacks for one round, swift action)
Level 11: Spell Strike, Arcane Pool +3
Level 13: Character Feat, EK Bonus Feat
Level 15: Magus Arcana (Broad Study), Arcane Pool +4
Level 17: Character Feat, EK Bonus Feat
Level 19: Magus Arcana (Arcane Accuracy? Up to you), Arcane Pool +5

Possible useful feats that aren't included in build above are Hexstrike, Extra Hex (use for a new hex or additional +1d6 channel), Intensified Spell, Deadly Aim, etc. Throw other archery based feats as desired.

Provided you splurge for at least a headband of Wis & Int +6, you end up with Arcane Pool 15/day and Ki Pool 12/day (usuable interchangably) and if you get a +6 Cha, that's 7/day Channel Energy. Depending on how many d6's you roll (whether boosted via Phylactery or more hexes), thats another 7-21 Ki/Arcana a day.

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