| Perpetr8r |
OK so I am starting a new game and was wondering if I should use vmc with my bard. I am worried the feat loss will cripple the bard as I always seem to use a lot of them.
I was thinking of using the magus vmc to gain access to some fun arcana like deed arcana.
Is this a good idea? How bad will it hurt to lose half my feats?
| chbgraphicarts |
Sandman Bard/Rogue VMC is a great way to go into Arcane Trickster at lv7 (you gain Sneak Attack at lv5 of Sandman and at Character Level 7 from Rogue VMC, so you qualify for Arcane Trickster after only 6 levels of Bard/Rogue. You also continue to gain Sneak Attacks as you level from the Rogue VMC, and never miss a level of the Bard's spell progression.
| Gisher |
Sandman Bard/Rogue VMC is a great way to go into Arcane Trickster at lv7 (you gain Sneak Attack at lv5 of Sandman and at Character Level 7 from Rogue VMC, so you qualify for Arcane Trickster after only 6 levels of Bard/Rogue. You also continue to gain Sneak Attacks as you level from the Rogue VMC, and never miss a level of the Bard's spell progression.
You have to have the two dice of sneak attack before you can enter Arcane Trickster. So you need 7 levels of Bard/Rogue and then you can start AT on your 8th level.
| chbgraphicarts |
chbgraphicarts wrote:Sandman Bard/Rogue VMC is a great way to go into Arcane Trickster at lv7 (you gain Sneak Attack at lv5 of Sandman and at Character Level 7 from Rogue VMC, so you qualify for Arcane Trickster after only 6 levels of Bard/Rogue. You also continue to gain Sneak Attacks as you level from the Rogue VMC, and never miss a level of the Bard's spell progression.You have to have the two dice of sneak attack before you can enter Arcane Trickster. So you need 7 levels of Bard/Rogue and then you can start AT on your 8th level.
You gain your second Sneak Attack dice at Character Level 7, regardless of your Class.
Just like how you can take Feats or even Prestige Classes at the same level that you gain a prerequisite, you should be able to take Arcane Trickster the moment you gain a second Sneak Attack dice, which is CL7.
| Atarlost |
I would not VMC a melee bard. You want your level 3 feat free for power attack and you usually don't have time or money to spend on retraining that early. Waiting until level 5 means dealing inadequate damage for a long time.
Obviously you shouldn't VMC any archer except maybe a zen archer, but especially not something like a bard that has no bonus feats and has other things competing for his slots.
Any bard wants to take Discordant Voice at level 11. Except an archaeologist.
You can VMC a caster bard if you can retrain at level 10 or 11 or a caster archaeologist in any case.
VMC loses the wrong half of its feats to line up with prerequisites for the feats a bard wants.
| Gisher |
Gisher wrote:chbgraphicarts wrote:Sandman Bard/Rogue VMC is a great way to go into Arcane Trickster at lv7 (you gain Sneak Attack at lv5 of Sandman and at Character Level 7 from Rogue VMC, so you qualify for Arcane Trickster after only 6 levels of Bard/Rogue. You also continue to gain Sneak Attacks as you level from the Rogue VMC, and never miss a level of the Bard's spell progression.You have to have the two dice of sneak attack before you can enter Arcane Trickster. So you need 7 levels of Bard/Rogue and then you can start AT on your 8th level.You gain your second Sneak Attack dice at Character Level 7, regardless of your Class.
Just like how you can take Feats or even Prestige Classes at the same level that you gain a prerequisite, you should be able to take Arcane Trickster the moment you gain a second Sneak Attack dice, which is CL7.
Prestige class prerequisites don't work like feat prerequisites.
Prestige classes allow characters to become truly exceptional, gaining powers beyond the ken of their peers. Unlike the core classes, characters must meet specific requirements before they can take their first level of a prestige class. If a character does not meet the requirements for a prestige class before gaining any benefits of that level, that character cannot take that prestige class. Characters that take levels in prestige classes do not gain any favored class bonuses for those levels.
So you can't take the first level of a prestige class until after you have all of the prerequisites met. Dragon Disciple, for example, requires 5 ranks in Knowledge (Arcana). That means you have to wait until at least 6th level to start DD. You can't take four levels of sorcerer and get the fifth Knowledge (Arcana) rank simultaneously with your first level of DD. Believe me, I wish it did work that way.
For the case at hand, you need to have met the sneak attack prerequisite before you can take a level of Arcane Trickster. At 6th level you do not meet the prerequisite, so you can not select AT as your seventh level class.