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It would seem given the nature of many animal companions and the fact they start as animals that they should be, IMO. I mean most animals hunt to survive, live in the wilds and attempt to intimidate both other predators and prey in their hunting/daily survival.
No this is by far not an important question but one I am curious to see the reasoning behind.
For instance the Wolf AC. It can barely feed itself if left alone to hunt (survival), going hungry most days really, cannot scare off any creatures whatsoever given how unimposing it is (Intimidate and Cha 6). I suppose I should be happy it can even try.
Not sure where you're getting this.
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills:
Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim* (Str).
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Not sure where you're getting this.
From the next line it seems you may have missed:
Animal companions can have ranks in any of the following skills:
Acrobatics* (Dex), Climb* (Str), Escape Artist (Dex), Fly* (Dex), Intimidate (Cha), Perception* (Wis), Stealth* (Dex), Survival (Wis), and Swim* (Str).
All of the skills marked with an (*) are class skills for animal companions. Animal companions with an Intelligence of 3 or higher can put ranks into any skill.
Note that Escape Artist, Intimidate and Survival all do not have the asterisk marking them as class skills.
obviously because stealth perception and climb need to be 15% more likely to succeed.
Mmm, well lets put it into context
First there's size difference to consider for Intimidate, so even if a solo wolf wouldn't be able to out-intimidate a bear, a rabbit would certainly get a heart attack.
Intimidate is also more about perceived threat rather than actual threat. A grizzly bear doesn't need to roll Intimidate to come off as intimidating, it's a giant mass of muscle and likely to be bigger and tougher than you, you know you're supposed to be scared of a bear because why the hell wouldn't you? (Given a normal setting of course.).
Meanwhile perceived threat could be a whole lot of hot air, but convincing hot air. Sure the halfling threatening you looks a little silly with his child-sized knife, but that's still a knife, and he just gave you a rather thorough description of easy it is to cut someones eyeball out of their socket.
Survival also requires context, as the wolf does have the scent ability, and thus is already ahead in being able to track down prey. Meanwhile the bear doesn't need survival because it knows where its prey is and where it's gonna be every mating season (assuming it's a bear that predominatly eats salmon and other fresh water fish, couldn't say the same for polar bears.).
Yes, in my opinion all animals and by that all animal companions should have survival as class skill. Besides reproducing making survival checks is all their life is about, after all.
First off, let me say that I completely agree that animals should have Survival as a class skill; however, I will also play devil's advocate. Can animals Take 10? If so, then Survival wouldn't need to be a skill for wolves (for example), because they have enough of a positive bonus that they would be above the 10 required to survive. Plus if you figure pack mentality and Aid Another... Then the situation becomes a little different. These are the things I thought about that could be used as a counter-argument to my stance.
Might be worth clicking the FAQ 'button'
I did click it, but not without hesitation because looking at recent FAQs I fear we might get an answer like: Animal companions should never have been allowed to be trained in survival and it was a typo to include it in the list of available skills.
They don't get survival because they don't need it. They spend all day in the woods, they roll random encounters, they run from what they can't kill, they attack what they can kill.
Most predators have faster moves than most prey.
they charge and attack.
Tracking isn't needed.
I guess.
I wish it _was_ a class skill for them though.
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They don't need to track. But they need to make survival checks to get along in the wild. If they fail in winter, they freeze to death, if they fail in summer they get a heatstroke, if they fail too often in a row they starve or die of thirst.
Survival isn't only about tracking.
I don't think this is a frequently asked question.
Survival is an easy sell for why not though: Most animals out there die due to failing to survive.
Survival has never been a class skill for animals. My house rule: it's a class skill for them.
Humans are omnivores capable of cooking and eating a wide variety of foods, carrying food around with them, building traps, and so on. A human survival expert would probably have more reliable access to food than the average predator. Survival skill also implies a variety of other abilities - the ability to follow maps, for example.
Intimidate suggests not only that you can scare people but you can persuade them to do specific things, which an animal will have a hard time communicating.
Intimidate as a class skill also implies that you're trained to identify what can or will intimidate a certain person, not just simply being big and growling. Walter White, for example, doesn't have Intimidate as a class skill until he takes a level of Drug Dealer. At that point, though, he's begun to train himself to target what, specifically, someone would be afraid of. He doesn't just go "Raaaawr!" and wave a handgun. The German that Christoff plays in Inglorious Basterds would be another example of what I take Intimidate-as-class-skill to be, when doubled with the fact that it's Charisma-based.
Personally, instead of giving it as a class skill, I'd just allow animal companions to use their strength score in place of charisma and use it in sort of the same way that your average barbarian would.
Intimidate as a class skill also implies that you're trained to identify what can or will intimidate a certain person, not just simply being big and growling. Walter White, for example, doesn't have Intimidate as a class skill until he takes a level of Drug Dealer. At that point, though, he's begun to train himself to target what, specifically, someone would be afraid of. He doesn't just go "Raaaawr!" and wave a handgun. The German that Christoff plays in Inglorious Basterds would be another example of what I take Intimidate-as-class-skill to be, when doubled with the fact that it's Charisma-based.
Personally, instead of giving it as a class skill, I'd just allow animal companions to use their strength score in place of charisma and use it in sort of the same way that your average barbarian would.
So animals can get advanced training in acrobatics but not in scaring other creatures?
I think we all know that none of the animal companion skills are 'trained' in the traditional sense compared to player character skills. And it is my belief that just because animal companions cannot get full use out of a skills range does not meant that skill should not be one they excel in to the point of it being a 'class skill'. Again acrobatics is a good example as I bet we will never see an bear walk on it's front paws or a horse do a cartwheel or a wolf do a routine on the uneven parallel bars but those are all uses of the acrobatics skill and AC's are good enough at the uses they CAN do that acrobatics is a class skill.
I would say that most animals/AC's are better at scaring off other creatures and surviving in the wilderness than they are at most acrobatic efforts and in fact can use probably more of the individual benefits of survival then of acrobatics.
Or maybe the carnivores should have Intimidate and Survival as class skills and the herbivores should get Escape Artist?
I did not mean to have this be an FAQ question but maybe it should be something they revue?
This makes me wonder, does anyone allow animal companions to have Traits like characters do?
That would be one way to give them a bit of customization. Maybe allow it when/if they hit INT 3?
I realize it's houserule territory, but something to consider.
Being scary and trying to drive something away isn't quite the same as the intimidate skill (although it is included in the intimidate skill) and as such it isn't a totally good fit for an animal. The compromise of making it an available, but not a class, skill makes quite a bit of sense to me. A wolf my try to scare off something, but wouldn't be trying to get it to divulge its secret plans for taking over the world.
Similarly while survival includes things animals need to survive, it also includes quite a few other things that aren't really appropriate for animals.
Basically, the skill system is designed around humanoid PCs, and applying it to other things requires compromises, such as making the skill available but without a class bonus.
This makes me wonder, does anyone allow animal companions to have Traits like characters do?
That would be one way to give them a bit of customization. Maybe allow it when/if they hit INT 3?
I realize it's houserule territory, but something to consider.
If they have an int of 3 they can take any feat including extra traits.
That's the only way I allow them to get traits.
The short answer? Animal Companions don't have those as class skills because the Animal type does not have them as class skills. That said, certain animals DO have excellent racial bonuses to the skills that make sense for them... Dogs and wolves, for instance, have +4 racial bonuses to Survival checks used to track by scent.
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Animals don't really try to scare other creatures with the exception that they will try to scare their own kind in competition for resources. But when it comes to food? No, scaring it would defeat the purpose. Their intimidation is very limited.
We are afraid when we hear a lion roar not because it is trying to intimidate us, but because it is a lion that is doing the roaring. Sometimes they are just using it to communicate. They'd only use a roar to intimidate against other lions in their territory, or if they are afraid and want to scare off the person without fighting. But if they intend on killing you they are not going to roar at you.
Other animals like birds may intimidate their fellow birds of the same species by puffing up some feathers, which we might think looks silly, but the other bird certainly is affected.
Small animals "are intimidated" by bigger ones, but the bigger ones are not trying to "intimidate", they are usually trying the opposite: to be stealthy.
Which is why I'd imagine intimidate is not a class skill. It is only used in specific situations. If you told your pet lion to intimidate a monster it would probably think "why? just kill it, what's wrong with you? we're wasting time"
This makes me wonder, does anyone allow animal companions to have Traits like characters do?
That would be one way to give them a bit of customization. Maybe allow it when/if they hit INT 3?
I realize it's houserule territory, but something to consider.
If they have an int of 3 they can take any feat including extra traits.
That's the only way I allow them to get traits.
Did not think of that, thanks!
Rich Parents! Hah! :D
Animals don't really try to scare other creatures with the exception that they will try to scare their own kind in competition for resources. But when it comes to food? No, scaring it would defeat the purpose. Their intimidation is very limited.
I don't think that's quite true. Animals will try to intimidate other animals (including other species) when they feel threatened, for example. Think of a cat faced with a strange and threatening dog. It will arch its back to make itself as large as possible, open its eyes very wide, and stand its fur on end to make itself as bulky as possible, all with the intention of establishing that, whatever it is facing shouldn't really want to mess with it.
But that's also not really the sort of thing I've ever seen a cat trained to do, and it's not really used for any purpose other than scaring off potential threats -- it's certainly not used to make other creatures "shaken" or otherwise debuff them. So I agree that it's not appropriate for ACs to naturally gravitate towards intimidation in the same way a dolphin gravitates towards swimming.
Survival represents special training that allows the user to hand wave hunting, gathering, etc.
Most animals aren't actually that good. An animal has to actually spot and successfully harvest/kill its food, rather than being able to handwave the process.
A wolf pack where every member of the wolf pack could routinely handwave catching enough food to feed itself and 2 others every day (i.e., the pack can routinely catch enough food for 3 entire packs per day) would be ludicrously effective hunters.