The Draconic Bloodline grants Mage Armor as a bonus Bloodline Spell, so you can't forget it as you would other spells. To avoid having a completely useless spell that I can't get rid of (and to facilitate the acrobatics of the character) I've avoided almost all armor, settling for a Haramaki (AC+1) to bring my unbuffed AC to 18. When trouble calls, I use Mage Armor to overwrite that into 21, and maybe Shield to 25 if I think I'll need it.
I get that in regards to Mage Armor, it doesn't work if my Armor Bonus to AC is +4 or more and that it overwrites/turns off Armor Bonuses of +3 or less. What I want to know is if in doing so, it turns off Armor Abilities as well?
Would a +1 Haramaki of Spell Resistance 13 (AC+2, essentially a +4 item) turn off it's Spell Resistance ability if I cast Mage Armor?
You may be thinking of Bracers of Armor that have the restriction that, if worn with armor, only the special abilities of the item with the highest enhancement bonus are active. As Grey_Mage points out, Mage Armor and magical armor don't have any such restrictions. Both function simultaneously, but the enhancement bonuses "overlap" so only the higher bonus applies for a given situation.
So you can load the Haramaki up with special abilities and still get the +4 armor bonus from Mage Armor. Note that even if you chose to enchant your Haramaki enough to equal or better the +4 armor bonus from Mage Armor, you would still benefit from Mage Armor in some circumstances. For example incorporeal touch attacks would ignore your Haramaki, but not your "overlapping" Mage Armor.
For example incorporeal touch attacks would ignore your Haramaki, but not your "overlapping" Mage Armor.
Actually had that come up in my last scenario. Mage Armor for an AC of 21, but Spectres attack Touch and are Incorporeal. Oh, I can have my Mage Armor apply to Touch against Incorporeal attacks? I don't feel quite so bad as the only level 7 in subtier 10-11! Nat 1 on your attack roll? Icing.
There is some text in the bracers of armor item description that deals with this situation.
Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not provide their armor bonus or armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger bonus the other source of armor ceases functioning.
Only the highest bonus applies, armor abilities cease to function from lower sources.
There is some text in the bracers of armor item description that deals with this situation.
Bracers of armor and ordinary armor do not stack. If a creature receives a larger armor bonus from another source, the bracers of armor cease functioning and do not provide their armor bonus or armor special abilities. If the bracers of armor grant a larger bonus the other source of armor ceases functioning.Only the highest bonus applies, armor abilities cease to function from lower sources.
Bracers of armor has it's own mechanics that don't apply to armor in general.
AFAIK there isn't any general rule about an armor AC bonus from a spell turning off armor abilities on armor with a lesser AC.
It's actually a highly debated topic because if you don't disallow this, then you run into the circumstance that you can wear full plate and an armored coat underneath. Enchant the full plate to a +5, and enchant the armored coat to a +1 with all the special abilities you like. It's much cheaper that way then actually enchanting something up to the +10 cap.
And for that reason (balance) it is generally accepted that while the rules do not outright directly state that it is not allowed, the general accepted practice is NO! You cannot benefit from more than 1 source at the same time, you must choose 1 to benefit from and the other is inactive.
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You have an interesting point Claxon, but in this scenario I don't consider Mage Armor a conflict as it can't possess secondary enchantments.
This is akin to a character with a +3 Heavy Shield (+5 Shield AC) benefiting from a Shield Spell. The Shield Spell may not provide AC but it will still protect from Magic Missile attacks. The user shouldn't have to select which one is active as the Shield spell automatically "does its job" interposing itself to the best of its ability even if it can't protect with AC.
I view Mage Armor the same way regarding incorporeal attacks. The higher of the two situational but like minded bonuses applies.
The armored coat has its own limitations and is the problem because the wording explicitly seems to allow (and designed for) the stacking you described with the caveat of using medium armor vs the heavy armor in your example. The bracer text seems designed to prevent this stacking otherwise it could be used by martials in armor although the text does exclude spells like Mage Armor as well under RAW.
Armored Coat
Benefit: More cumbersome than light armor but less effective than most medium armors, the advantage of an armored coat is that a person can don it or remove it as a move action (there is no “don hastily” option for an armored coat). If worn over other armor, use the better AC bonus and worse value in all other categories; an armored coat has no effect if worn with heavy armor. The only magic effects that apply are those worn on top.
From a balance perspective, I agree only one ITEM should function at a time but consider spells the exception.
It's actually a highly debated topic because if you don't disallow this, then you run into the circumstance that you can wear full plate and an armored coat underneath. Enchant the full plate to a +5, and enchant the armored coat to a +1 with all the special abilities you like. It's much cheaper that way then actually enchanting something up to the +10 cap.
And for that reason (balance) it is generally accepted that while the rules do not outright directly state that it is not allowed, the general accepted practice is NO! You cannot benefit from more than 1 source at the same time, you must choose 1 to benefit from and the other is inactive.
Except, the rules text of the armored coat specifically disallows this, as noted in the post above mine.
Except, the rules text of the armored coat specifically disallows this, as noted in the post above mine.It's actually a highly debated topic because if you don't disallow this, then you run into the circumstance that you can wear full plate and an armored coat underneath. Enchant the full plate to a +5, and enchant the armored coat to a +1 with all the special abilities you like. It's much cheaper that way then actually enchanting something up to the +10 cap.
And for that reason (balance) it is generally accepted that while the rules do not outright directly state that it is not allowed, the general accepted practice is NO! You cannot benefit from more than 1 source at the same time, you must choose 1 to benefit from and the other is inactive.
I forgot about the specific rules of the armored coat. But the general idea still applies. You could wear quilted armor under full plate and attempt the same sort of shenanigans.
But that seems illogical and uncomfortable and inefficient. That's like trying to put a boot on over your boots. Even if you do manage to get it on, it'll be really uncomfortable and awkward to move.
I forgot about the specific rules of the armored coat. But the general idea still applies. You could wear quilted armor under full plate and attempt the same sort of shenanigans.Except, the rules text of the armored coat specifically disallows this, as noted in the post above mine.It's actually a highly debated topic because if you don't disallow this, then you run into the circumstance that you can wear full plate and an armored coat underneath. Enchant the full plate to a +5, and enchant the armored coat to a +1 with all the special abilities you like. It's much cheaper that way then actually enchanting something up to the +10 cap.
And for that reason (balance) it is generally accepted that while the rules do not outright directly state that it is not allowed, the general accepted practice is NO! You cannot benefit from more than 1 source at the same time, you must choose 1 to benefit from and the other is inactive.
Except that they both take up the Armor slot so only one will function.
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Except that they both take up the Armor slot so only one will function.I forgot about the specific rules of the armored coat. But the general idea still applies. You could wear quilted armor under full plate and attempt the same sort of shenanigans.Except, the rules text of the armored coat specifically disallows this, as noted in the post above mine.It's actually a highly debated topic because if you don't disallow this, then you run into the circumstance that you can wear full plate and an armored coat underneath. Enchant the full plate to a +5, and enchant the armored coat to a +1 with all the special abilities you like. It's much cheaper that way then actually enchanting something up to the +10 cap.
And for that reason (balance) it is generally accepted that while the rules do not outright directly state that it is not allowed, the general accepted practice is NO! You cannot benefit from more than 1 source at the same time, you must choose 1 to benefit from and the other is inactive.
The only way to actually do it is with an Armored Kilt - because it specifically doesn't take up the armor slot when wearing other armor. That's the reason it's disallowed in PFS - besides that it's basically the same thing as a Hamaraki.
Bracers of armor has it's own mechanics that don't apply to armor in general.AFAIK there isn't any general rule about an armor AC bonus from a spell turning off armor abilities on armor with a lesser AC.
It's also worth nothing that being able to cast Mage armor is a requirement for creating the bracers of armor, It'd be like trying to stack two castings of mage armor.
The only way to actually do it is with an Armored Kilt - because it specifically doesn't take up the armor slot when wearing other armor. That's the reason it's disallowed in PFS - besides that it's basically the same thing as a Hamaraki.Except that they both take up the Armor slot so only one will function.I forgot about the specific rules of the armored coat. But the general idea still applies. You could wear quilted armor under full plate and attempt the same sort of shenanigans.Except, the rules text of the armored coat specifically disallows this, as noted in the post above mine.It's actually a highly debated topic because if you don't disallow this, then you run into the circumstance that you can wear full plate and an armored coat underneath. Enchant the full plate to a +5, and enchant the armored coat to a +1 with all the special abilities you like. It's much cheaper that way then actually enchanting something up to the +10 cap.
And for that reason (balance) it is generally accepted that while the rules do not outright directly state that it is not allowed, the general accepted practice is NO! You cannot benefit from more than 1 source at the same time, you must choose 1 to benefit from and the other is inactive.
There is actually a strong rules argument for magic armored kilts and other magic armor not stacking while still allowing for mage armor to work with a +1 slick haramaki or w/e.
The gist of it is that sure, you can add an armored kilt to another piece of armor and yes, the ACs will stack - the key thing is that not stacking armor bonuses is a seperate rule to no doubling on items in item slots, meaning that for the armored kilt to function it would have to be an exception to the no stacking armor bonuses rule detailed here. However, a +1 armored kilt is still a distinct magical item, so wearing both it and a magical breastplate means that one of the items turns off due to both occupying the same magic item slot, preventing the double stacking shenanigans with enchanted gear. Bonuses from things that don't occupy the armor slot still work, like archmagi robes or mage armor.
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meaning that for the armored kilt to function it would have to be an exception to the no stacking armor bonuses rule detailed here
The armor bonuses don't stack. But you can get the specials (fortification etc) on the kilt and just put + on the armor itself. Much cheaper.
And they both fit in the slot because -
When you add an armored kilt to a suit of light armor, the set counts as medium armor. Likewise, a kilt and medium armor counts as heavy armor. Adding an armored kilt to heavy armor has no effect.
it's added to it in the same slot. Specific trumps general. (And yes - it is a bit OP - hence PFS disallowing it. Adventurer's Armory had a few OP things in it.)
And the mage armor/hamaraki trick works too - I just meant it was the only way to do it with pieces of equipment.
meaning that for the armored kilt to function it would have to be an exception to the no stacking armor bonuses rule detailed hereThe armor bonuses don't stack. But you can get the specials (fortification etc) on the kilt and just put + on the armor itself. Much cheaper.
And they both fit in the slot because -
When you add an armored kilt to a suit of light armor, the set counts as medium armor. Likewise, a kilt and medium armor counts as heavy armor. Adding an armored kilt to heavy armor has no effect.it's added to it in the same slot. Specific trumps general. (And yes - it is a bit OP - hence PFS disallowing it. Adventurer's Armory had a few OP things in it.)
And the mage armor/hamaraki trick works too - I just meant it was the only way to do it with pieces of equipment.
Fun fact: an armored kilt does NOT occupy the armor slot. Neither does a breastplate for that matter. Only magic items do. The rule prohibiting multiple armor from stacking is this, which is really just a restatement of the general rule of "Same bonus types don't stack".
For the armored kilt and another piece of worn armor to stack the implied rule is that the armor AC from an armored kilt and the armor AC from another piece of armor stack. This rule does NOT change the magic item slot rules at all, because the rules prohibiting multiple magic armor in the same armor slot is a different set of rules to the rules preventing armor bonuses from multiple suits of armor giving stacking a AC bonus, and the reason why multiple armor sets don't stack normally is because of the general rule for bonuses of the same type (for the armored kilt to function correctly an exception to the stacking rules is needed, and changing the magic slot rules instead/as well does nothing to enable the correct function of the kilt).
Thus if, for example, one were to wear a magical +1 slick armored kilt and a magical +1 shadow hamakari, one of the magical items would switch off due to occupying the same slot, the wearer would end up with either a +1 shadow hamakari and an armored kilt that provides no magical bonuses, or a +1 slick armored kilt and a haramaki that provides no magical bonuses. Due to the specific exception of the armored kilt the wearer would get a total armor AC of +3 (+2 from the "active" item that fills the slot, and +1 from the one that doesn't).