
Order of Chaos |
2 people marked this as FAQ candidate. |

Can a Beast-bonded witch posses a new body permanently using Twin Soul? Is there a wise person from Paizo, who can confirm?
1) Old witch captures a young girl.
2) Witch stabs her heart in a wild ritual placing her soul in her familiar.
3) Witch takes over young girls body, which soul now has nowhere to go (dies).
4) An 80 year old witch in a young body, permanently.
"can persist in this state indefinitely"

dragonhunterq |

It's a valid interpretation. The girls spirit wouldn't necessarily die. It could either reside in the familiar or be suppressed. As magic jar without a receptacle isn't really covered (as far as I can find) they are also viable options at the GMs call.
In those circumstances you could later be exorcised, returning the girls spirit to her own body. It wouldn't time out though, so it lasts until you run into a meddling goody two shoes with the right skills.
A particularly malevolent solution if the GM treats the familiar as the host for the spirit (least likely RAW solution as it is effectively treating the familiar as the receptacle) is to ensure the familiar is out of range, get someone to kill the familiar, then acquire a new familiar.
If the GM rules the girls spirit is suppressed, I'm not sure you can guarantee permanence.

Order of Chaos |

It's a valid interpretation. The girls spirit wouldn't necessarily die.
The rules for Magic Jar clearly state "Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain.", so I am pretty sure she is dead, which leaves one fresh and empty body ready for the taking.
I also don't think you could be exorcized, since you can "transfer into a suitable vessel (such as a clone)" and as we know trying to exorcize clones is utterly pointless.

Arbane the Terrible |
dragonhunterq wrote:It's a valid interpretation. The girls spirit wouldn't necessarily die.The rules for Magic Jar clearly state "Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain.", so I am pretty sure she is dead, which leaves one fresh and empty body ready for the taking.
If so, Shadow Demons just got even MORE stupidly overpowered for their CR.

Byakko |
The whole no-gem therefore slain has been brought up many times, but is pretty clearly not intended. I suggest running it similarly to Marionette Possession, which is also a Magic Jar effect without a gem.
Michal Brock has stated that the Beast-Bonded's Magic Jar works just like the spell (apart from the gem) including having a duration.
This archetype is generally very poorly written and leaves many questions unanswered:
See this thread I made earlier.
Mark Seifter also hinted that there's a class in the new Occult Adventures book with a similar ability which could possibly be conceptually applied to the Beast Bonded Witch's power as clarification.

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Can a Beast-bonded witch posses a new body permanently using Twin Soul? Is there a wise person from Paizo, who can confirm?
1) Old witch captures a young girl.
2) Witch stabs her heart in a wild ritual placing her soul in her familiar.
3) Witch takes over young girls body, which soul now has nowhere to go (dies).
4) An 80 year old witch in a young body, permanently.
"can persist in this state indefinitely"
Just one problem with your scenario.
The girl's body is already dead with Step 2. Which means her soul never goes into a receptacle. And there is no valid body for the witch to possess. Any other interpretation goes outside the ruleset.

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Order of Chaos wrote:Can a Beast-bonded witch posses a new body permanently using Twin Soul? Is there a wise person from Paizo, who can confirm?
1) Old witch captures a young girl.
2) Witch stabs her heart in a wild ritual placing her soul in her familiar.
3) Witch takes over young girls body, which soul now has nowhere to go (dies).
4) An 80 year old witch in a young body, permanently.
"can persist in this state indefinitely"
Just one problem with your scenario.
The girl's body is already dead with Step 2. Which means her soul never goes into a receptacle. And there is no valid body for the witch to possess. Any other interpretation goes outside the ruleset.
It looks like OoC meant "The witch stabs her own heart". ^_^

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LazarX wrote:It looks like OoC meant "The witch stabs her own heart". ^_^Order of Chaos wrote:Can a Beast-bonded witch posses a new body permanently using Twin Soul? Is there a wise person from Paizo, who can confirm?
1) Old witch captures a young girl.
2) Witch stabs her heart in a wild ritual placing her soul in her familiar.
3) Witch takes over young girls body, which soul now has nowhere to go (dies).
4) An 80 year old witch in a young body, permanently.
"can persist in this state indefinitely"
Just one problem with your scenario.
The girl's body is already dead with Step 2. Which means her soul never goes into a receptacle. And there is no valid body for the witch to possess. Any other interpretation goes outside the ruleset.
Precise diction counts in magical rituals.
Otherwise yes, the witch can do this. Keep in mind that this is an evil enough act to ping you on Detect Evil radars.

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Order of Chaos wrote:If so, Shadow Demons just got even MORE stupidly overpowered for their CR.dragonhunterq wrote:It's a valid interpretation. The girls spirit wouldn't necessarily die.The rules for Magic Jar clearly state "Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain.", so I am pretty sure she is dead, which leaves one fresh and empty body ready for the taking.
Shadow Demons are different. They being what they are and how they operate, simply insert themselves into the body, and take control of what is a very crowded house.

Snowblind |

Arbane the Terrible wrote:Shadow Demons are different. They being what they are and how they operate, simply insert themselves into the body, and take control of what is a very crowded house.Order of Chaos wrote:If so, Shadow Demons just got even MORE stupidly overpowered for their CR.dragonhunterq wrote:It's a valid interpretation. The girls spirit wouldn't necessarily die.The rules for Magic Jar clearly state "Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain.", so I am pretty sure she is dead, which leaves one fresh and empty body ready for the taking.
[Citation Needed]
Shadow Demons just have a Magic Jar SLA. Nothing in the rules that indicates they are special in any way with regards to how that SLA functions aside from the bit about getting hit by sunbeam/sunburst.
I would seriously like it if you could find some indication for how shadow demon Magic Jar usage functions. Since they *don't* have any special abilities around the SLA using a receptacle, any information about how they function could probably be reasonably applied to Magic Jar in general.

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LazarX wrote:Arbane the Terrible wrote:Shadow Demons are different. They being what they are and how they operate, simply insert themselves into the body, and take control of what is a very crowded house.Order of Chaos wrote:If so, Shadow Demons just got even MORE stupidly overpowered for their CR.dragonhunterq wrote:It's a valid interpretation. The girls spirit wouldn't necessarily die.The rules for Magic Jar clearly state "Any life force with nowhere to go is treated as slain.", so I am pretty sure she is dead, which leaves one fresh and empty body ready for the taking.[Citation Needed]
Shadow Demons just have a Magic Jar SLA. Nothing in the rules that indicates they are special in any way with regards to how that SLA functions aside from the bit about getting hit by sunbeam/sunburst.
I would seriously like it if you could find some indication for how shadow demon Magic Jar usage functions. Since they *don't* have any special abilities around the SLA using a receptacle, any information about how they function could probably be reasonably applied to Magic Jar in general.
It means they possess people... Just like the way it was shown in the animated cartoon. Magic Jar is used as the mechanic to set the DC and what kind of protections will keep the demon out of your body. So if you have a protection that works against Magic Jar, it will work against the Shadow Demon's posession.