I'll try to keep this short, I'm a newbie GM and one of my players has been basically trapping every intelligent enemy we've come up against and is trying to use a mix of diplomacy coupled with his enchanter powers to convert/enlist them. According to him he doesn't really want them to go on adventures with him, it's more for roleplay...and the fact that he wants to start his own town/castle where he would employ every last one of them...most of them he would teach crafts to and have them go out into outside territories to work their craft while spying on the local communities...
Currently he has 5 sprite creatures in separate cages and a bunch of bandits.
So a few questions:
1. Are there any rules for convincing intelligent monsters to change their ways?
2. Can you think of a way that could turn this person off his current quest that wouldn't ruin the game for him?
3. How should I have local authorities react to their local hero holding people captive? (for those of you who want background it's reign of winter)
4. If there is a way to convince/convert them, how helpful should the NPC's be?
5. Do you know how annoying it is having to answer his 101 questions about each NPC's life and past when here is only a small blurp in the book? (not mad at the writers, monsters are supposed to be dealt with and forgotten, think I'm lucky some of them even got names.)
You don't have to answer anything about their lives if he's asking you, if he's asking them, you can give light details or refuse to cooperate.
I'd let him succeed sometimes, fail others, he can't teach any craft he doesn't know. That said, he has to be convincing, not just to the character to you since charm spells are mostly temporary. Just because one gives a rousing speech, doesn't mean you change somebody's alignment.
Actually, since he's got five sprite-like creatures and a bunch of bandits already, he's likely out of Charm Person spells, and once the spells wear off, the creatures are most likely quite hostile. After all, would you like it if you found out someone had basically been mind controlling you?
If he is charming fey (which I am assuming the sprites things are) he has to be using charm monster. Since it has a duration of at least 7 days he could potentially keep dozens of creatures charmed before running out of spell slots. If he uses magical lineage+extend spell he could be walking around with over 100 "friends" by level 10 without risking letting the spells wear off.
3. How should I have local authorities react to their local hero holding people captive? (for those of you who want background it's reign of winter)
They should be concerned that this enchanter is brain washing evil creatures and that he is unlawfully passing judgement and imprisoning things in contravention of their legal authority.
And caged creatures are seldom ever converted. Ask most prisoners of war how they view their captors.
Conversion is a time intensive hands on task, much like psychiatric therapy is in our world. If he is adventuring I am assuming he has little time (or the proper skills for that matter) to do such a thing, though maybe he/she has a high Diplaomacy, Bluff and Sense Motive that could do the trick.
Generally I would say Diplomacy would be the key skill but it would take significant time to change a creatures entire way of life and even with diplomacy:
Some requests automatically fail if the request goes against the creature’s values or its nature, subject to GM discretion.
That said, perhaps occasionally a captive will want to convert, will see the benefits of living a life on the good aligned path. If they are PC style races they probably have a decent shot at it with the player backing their start but monsters probably won't. Society at large is going to treat them at face value and that sort of constant psychological siege will be a great reminder of why 'might made right' in their home societies, assuming such things as goblinoids, orcs or other evil monstrous/humanoids.
Then again you could always make him take the Leadership feat to represent those he converts.
And there is no guarentee that even after 'conversion' they will be socially inclined to anyone but him. He may make them loyal since he is now 'the toughest sonofab#$%$ around' but they may stay evil and act so when he is not directly overseeing their actions.
Enchanter: Grogg I want you to go to town and get me some spell components. Here is a list of what I need and here is some gold.
Grogg the orc Berserker: Right boss! Components comin' up!
-Later there is a knock at the door, it's the town guard-
Town Guard: Open up in the name of the law! We know you sent that orc into town and your wanted for the deaths of the three shopkeepers he killed! He even tried to bribe us with that gold you gave him!
5. Do you know how annoying it is having to answer his 101 questions about each NPC's life and past when here is only a small blurp in the book?
My DM has 2 girls aged 6 and 8 so yeah kinda.
I'd let him succeed sometimes, fail others, he can't teach any craft he doesn't know. That said, he has to be convincing, not just to the character to you since charm spells are mostly temporary. Just because one gives a rousing speech, doesn't mean you change somebody's alignment.
So far I've been mainly using the for improving relationships. Surprisingly, as far as the charm spells go, he really only uses them to catch the enemies, afterwords he relies on his diplomacy, and only uses his spells to buff that.
If he is charming fey (which I am assuming the sprites things are) he has to be using charm monster. Since it has a duration of at least 7 days he could potentially keep dozens of creatures charmed before running out of spell slots. If he uses magical lineage+extend spell he could be walking around with over 100 "friends" by level 10 without risking letting the spells wear off.
Not to mention when he gets dominate person
And caged creatures are seldom ever converted. Ask most prisoners of war how they view their captors.This has been my main fall back though his answer goes into debates I really don't want to start on this thread, just suffice it to know, he doesn't treat them as POWs he needs info from, but instead relies on something that's apparently illegal for cops to use called "I'm really the only friend that you have, and everything I am doing is for your good. Just trust me and I'll keep others from hurting/killing you" Made illegal because it results in false confessions. (Google Internalized False Confessions)
Enchanter: Grogg I want you to go to town and get me some spell components. Here is a list of what I need and here is some gold.
Grogg the orc Berserker: Right boss! Components comin' up!
-Later there is a knock at the door, it's the town guard-
Town Guard: Open up in the name of the law! We know you sent that orc into town and your wanted for the deaths of the three shopkeepers he killed! He even tried to bribe us with that gold you gave him!
I really like that idea and hope I get the chance to use it.
A charming person with natural charisma and magic can convince people and monsters to like him, but that doesn't change who they are. Did you ever see Terminator 2? One of the Terminators was ordered to protect and obey John Connor, and when he was threatened by bikers, the Terminator intervened. He pulled out his pistol and was about to put one in the bikers head. "You were going to kill him?" He asked shrilly. "Of course, I'm a terminator." So he made him swear to kill no one. So the next time the terminator went into action, he pulled out his pistol and blew off the security guard's kneecaps. When John challenged him on this, he said, "He'll live."
This is also for Gilfalas, but unfortunately in a world with with definitive and detectable alignments, it becomes a lot harder to sneak those by.
One good note though, now that we're a little farther in the game he has shown that he a least has a bias for those he 'keeps' and those he turns over to the authorities. Though it's hard to tell what his bias is. kinda chaotic with that (which almost makes sense as he's CG) One last thing that pertains tho this that I'm really confused about since I played Wrath of Righteous. (Major spoiler though)
I am leafing through a friend's old player companions, check out the dungeoneers handbook. It has a nice little section on bargaining with monsters.
Have a talk with the player out of game, wherein you both talk about the possible game-dominating implications of trying to have a horde of dudes at your beck and call. Master summoners often struggle with this when they flood the battlefield with extra dudes.
more importantly:
Conversion is not as simple as spells and diplomacy roles. Those tools are for getting actions out of unwilling participants in situ, not make life changing permanent systems.
What is the player doing to actually change the basic nature of the monsters? How is he adventuring when it would take years of upbringing to change even the most basic aspects of their outlook.
You capture a brigand. He hates you. You sweet-talk him. He likes you for a spell. You leave, he hates you again and resents being captured. This isn't changing the brigand, only changing his day to day attitude towards you.
Some people will effortlessly kill their very best friends. Charm Person is the flimsiest protection from those people.
As a hook idea, have one of the brigand's big brothers be an goodie two shoes Paladin with a party of LG friends who come looking for him and fine him and others "enslaved". Make your party deal with the consequences of running a slave ring.
He has them in cages as prisoners. Unless you decide to go with Stockholm Syndrome I don't think they will agree to help him do anything.
Diplomacy also does not really make someone your friend. It means that for a limited period of time they might help you with something, depending on what that something is. Some things will always be refused.
Due to some circumstances, and another character in the group that's quickly heading towards LE, the person in question is now down to just the five fey. When the character talks to them, which is pretty often, he never really dig for information about then enemy army (if you will), but rather talks to them about themselves, which for the most part I try to have them seldom answer. Though at one point when he captured one who was cursing him out about what their leader would do to him I accidentally let it slip that the leaders would do the same to them.
Surprisingly the character in question doesn't harp on this one point to much other then to say that he wouldn't let that happen to them. Mainly he just acts nice to them, letting them know that the only reason they are captured is because they tried to kill him, and because he worried if he lets them out either the other character in the group would kill them (which the person is adamant about doing)or the ones he's after would kill them. He continues to promise them that once he has taken care of the problem at hand he will let them out, as long as they don't attack him. Until then he promises to make the cage as comfortable as possible.
The person also answers all questions they have for him truthfully, yet in such a way that it either doesn't tell much about himself, or tricks them into revealing information about themselves in such a way that they don't realize it.
According to him, creating a friendship with them is the quickest way to rehabilitation, and unlike shrinks in our world he actually cares about them (these are his words, don't get mad at me) Also having a common enemy forces them to put trust into him, even if just a little, and later down the line will give them a connection. As far as making their cage nicer, he wants to show them (in a way) that he not really the bad guy, and by promising to let them out after the real one is dead, he's given a reason why he's /forced/ to keep them captive now. As far as making the cage nicer, its hard to believe someone who doesn't give first, also by giving them treats based off their attitudes and actions to him, he's hoping that inherent greed will actually alter how they act. Despite the fact that most of what he's giving them is stuff that can be easily obtained if they were free. (I.E silk pillows for beds when one of them woke him up at night during a monster attack, mainly because they were afraid of being killed too.)
There are rules for Redemption in Champions of Purity, which covers the initial encounter and the continuing actions required for redemption. It is a pretty good system...