This showed up in BOOK OF HEROIC RACES: ADVANCED FAVORED CLASS OPTIONS (PFRPG) by Jon Brazer Enterprises-
"Summoner: Add +1/2 additional creatures summoned when summoning multiple creatures via a summon monster spell or spell-like ability. "
If you can find a GM who will allow it, perhaps a challenge, its enough to change the race for playing Summoners from Half Elves to Samsarans.
At say level 6 you could previously, assuming you have the Superior Summoning feat, summon 1, 3 or 4 monsters from the level 2 list. That averages 2 and 2/3. A Samsaran can now summon 1, 6 or 7 Monsters, which averages 4 and 2/3.
Obviously this is great for the already excellent Master Summoner.
For the vanilla Summoner, it makes the strategy of not using the Eidelon for combat but as a scout, a sort of rogue or what is called a skilldelon much better, perhaps going from a viable strategy to the best way to play the class. Just take lots of feats that make your summons better and hang around with people like Bards who buff their whole team.
I don't know what the person at Jon Brazer Enterprises who came up with this was high on, but I definitely want some.
As 3rd party stuff goes, that pretty much craptastically overpowered.
I don't think any sane GM would allow it.
Stuff like this is why many GMs wont even look at 3rd party stuff. Even though not everything 3rd party is so terribly imbalanced, the added expense and effort of looking through extra materials that end up being terrible dissuade many people from it's use at all.
IMOP this is the kind of stuff that give 3pp a bad name. Summoning 1d3 +7 Tyranusauruses at level 15 is a bit too good:)
Summoning 1d3 +7 Tyranusauruses at level 15 is a bit too good:)
Its actually 1, 9 or 10, or at least I think so. If you get a 1 on the d3 you don't summon multiple monsters.
And its 1, 10 or 11 with superior summoning, and with +4 con and str [cos dinosaurs have so little of those stats].To be fair to 3rd Party publishers, Dreamscarred Press are usually very good. And because on 3rd party author is a twit does not mean they all are.
As for this, in my games it will get met with the most important word in a GMs vocabulary- no.
Summoning 1d3 +7 Tyranusauruses at level 15 is a bit too good:)Its actually 1, 9 or 10, or at least I think so. If you get a 1 on the d3 you don't summon multiple monsters.
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yes that is pehaps the Way to read it but that is even worse because it now becomes random in a silly Way 33% it dosent matter and 66% it is totally of so now even the player cannot count on it:(
Edit: i know lots of 3pp are fine. But stuff like this is not, and it gives them all a bad rep.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
When it comes to balance problems things like the Samsaran bonus are not the problem. I mean its obviously OP and then some.
Its things that seem fine, get thoroughly established in the campaign and then turn out to be broken when some inventive player uses it in conjunction with one or more other things.
But its the second sort of thing that Paizo miss themselves at times. And the more rules there are in print, the more likely it becomes that 2 or more rules in conjunction are broken, and the harder it is to avoid.
When it comes to balance problems things like the Samsaran bonus are not the problem. I mean its obviously OP and then some.
Its things that seem fine, get thoroughly established in the campaign and then turn out to be broken when some inventive player uses it in conjunction with one or more other things.
But its the second sort of thing that Paizo miss themselves at times. And the more rules there are in print, the more likely it becomes that 2 or more rules in conjunction are broken, and the harder it is to avoid.
Yes paizo also have some critical faliures. That is unavoidable when a game get this complex.
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Yep.
Just as a game it would probably be best to stop printing new rules that gives players more options, and just have settings and new monsters etc.
It is the opposite of what makes money for a publisher of course.
Yep.
Just as a game it would probably be best to stop printing new rules that gives players more options, and just have settings and new monsters etc.
It is the opposite of what makes money for a publisher of course.
Or just write somwhere that you dont need to use all the rules every time you play;)
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Sure the overpoweredness is bad but the really terrible part is how long that summoner's turn would take. I'd only allow such a thing in a solo campaign.
Well, the monsters summoned are going to all be the same. If the summoner is reasonably prepared and decisive, it shouldn't be too bad. And it will sure make combat shorter in terms of rounds.