[unchained] Summoner?

[chad gilbreath]

So with the Unchained Summoner being the new playable class does that mean all the Feats and Archetypes associated with it will be usable with it? Or do we have to wait for an update?

[voideternal]

If memory serves, I believe the Unchained Summoner is backwards compatible with existing Feats and Archetypes. The Unchained Monk, however, is not.

[chad gilbreath]

Okay thank you that's all I need to know

[Deighton Thrane]

Actually, the new summoner states you can use any archetype that doesn't alter the Eidolon class feature, which is a lot of them. I believe the feats are still usable with no provisos though.

EDIT - Or at least that's what I thought the rule was, am having trouble trying to find the exact location where it states this. Pretty sure that's still the rule.

[Deadmanwalking]

Actually, altering the Eidolon in certain ways is fine. It's any archetype that alters the Eidolon's base form specifically that's a problem.

[FLite]

I think that rule is from the PFS blog, and applies to which archtypes are allowed for unchained summoners in PFS. For everyone else, it is basically up to the GM.

[Milo v3]

"These classes can be used alongside their
original counterparts (although individual characters must
use one version or the other exclusively). Some feats, rage
powers, rogue talents, and other rules might not work with
the unchained classes, and such rules should be reviewed
before being used with the new versions. Finally, with the
exception of the monk, these classes should work with any of
the archetypes from previous books as long as the classes still
have the appropriate class features to replace."

[LazarX]

chad gilbreath wrote:

So with the Unchained Summoner being the new playable class does that mean all the Feats and Archetypes associated with it will be usable with it? Or do we have to wait for an update?

No. No archetype that manipulates the base form of an eidolon is legal, I think at this point only the Evolutionist and one or two others remain viable. Feats are okay as long as the above restriction applies.

It should be noted however that Evolutionists are restricted to the base forms allowed by the type of creature they're bonded to.

here's the posting from the blog

The unchained summoner qualifies for all existing summoner archetypes, save those that modify the eidolon's type or base form.

So things like the First Worlder, and the two versions of Wild Caller, (which modify the eidolon to a fey type) are out.

[Starbuck_II]

Synthegist still works. Master Summoner still works.
What else?

[Albatoonoe]

It's really just the First Worlder, the Wild Callers, and the Shaitan Binder. I just checked everything else out on Archives of Nethys and those are the only ones that don't work. Thank goodness. I rather liked Shadow Caller and Blood Summoner.

[Duskblade]

So quick question: does the spirit summoner archetype still work with the unchained summoner. I would think it does because it doesn't really 'alter' the eidolon in any meaningful way (it basically has the same restrictions that the new eidolon subtypes have).

[PIXIE DUST]

So master summoner shinanigans are still abound? AWESOME!

[Albatoonoe]

Yeah, you're correct, duskblade. Spirit Summoner is go.

[LazarX]

chad gilbreath wrote:

So with the Unchained Summoner being the new playable class does that mean all the Feats and Archetypes associated with it will be usable with it? Or do we have to wait for an update?

The Unchained Summoner is not compatible with any archetype that changes the base form of the Eidolon, this would include those like the First World Summoner, the Synthesist Summoner, the Master Summoner.

[Albatoonoe]

That is partially wrong, Lazar. The latter two do not alter the base form. It's very specific wording. The base form remains the same in the Master summoner (though it's progression is stinted) and the Synthesist (except now you where it like a suit). Anything that alters the mechanics of an eidolon outside of its base form (like bipedal) or type is compatible.

[Serum]

I don't see what's stopping the ARG wild caller archetype from being allowed. It doesn't alter or restrict the base form at all.

[Albatoonoe]

Ah, you are correct. The half elf wildcaller seems fine.

[Gamerskum]

Shaitan Binder also seems to work it just gets a bonus is it has a bipedal base form , it doesn't alter that base form.