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Just a point I'd like to bring up in this discussion. The fact my game group largely stayed with me and were there as friends to listen when some troubling things happened, probably saved my life. Transition isn't easy and it involves an awareness of things you never really paid attention to. And I've known at least one person personally who committed suicide because she felt she didn't have anyone to talk to. Had I known, at the time, I could have been there for her and maybe things would have been different. Just my two cents.
What you say is true. But there are cases, where people commit suicide because they could not bear the load anymore others were placing on their shoulders. A could be someone who was at a point where he had to make a decision: Die or get rid of other people's baggage.
Casting him out of this gaming group might pose the same risk for his life as not listening to T's problems is for T's life.We don't know. But for the A's reaction sounds like a scream for help.
Contributor
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This really doesn't sound like a game issue to me, this sounds like a friends issue. I mean, you have player A who has suddenly apparently drastically changed in personality. He's decided to drastically change not only his own behaviour, but also his behaviour towards his friends because of what some random people at a furry convention said to him?
Player T then sounds like she's depressed and dwelling on the negative repeatedly at the game. Is this how she is all the time, or is it getting worse or better? Either way she's apparently fairly fragile right now as well for some reason.
If you're friends with these two people letting it all play out just to see what happens shouldn't be an option. You need to talk to them and work out what's going on.
This. :)
Don't they know you come to games to chill out?
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I’m not aware that I personally know any trans people, nor do I know T from the OP, so I won’t comment on that. I have my reaction to the OP’s portrayal of T, but that’s so many degrees removed from reality that I don’t dare put my foot there.
What I’m curious about, though, is this: I wonder how the doctors, lawyers, and military-folk who interacted with A at the con would react to how A is acting towards T. I’d be floored if their perspective or advice is being accurately applied by A to the situation.
I can’t imagine this panel of doctors, lawyers, and military-folk—had they witnessed the interaction—would be like, “Oh, good on ya, A … way to hear what we said and apply it appropriately in your life and social group.”
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How old are A and T, btw?
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I have my guess.
Well... I had to restrict myself to just posts by the OP, to keep my head clear of the wall of anger (ok I haven't read the angry posts but if it almost got the thread locked then that probably says enough).
My thoughts are "excellent philosophy player A... but poor execution."
"You should look and act respectable and own your failures and successes." to paraphrase. But acting respectable doesn't typically include being rude to others unless they REALLY ARE being disruptive to everyone. I am not sure how far player T was taking his transgender issues out on the group or even how badly it was disrupting things, but if T was once a friend there were nicer ways to steer him in a new direction than cutting down his rant right there at the table in front of everyone. The respectable thing might have been to take player T aside and let him know this wasn't the place or time to rant, to save it for after the game, please.
Acting respectable shouldn't JUST be in the board room, it should also be when around friends and acquaintances.
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Somebody read "the secret" ....
Does this remind anyone of the milk thread?
Let's say T curses a lot. Then A has a revelation and decides no more cursing during the game. He decides this unilaterally without any discussion with the rest of the group. Any attempts to curse are now met with insults from A.
Do the same people still support A?
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This really doesn't sound like a game issue to me, this sounds like a friends issue. I mean, you have player A who has suddenly apparently drastically changed in personality. He's decided to drastically change not only his own behaviour, but also his behaviour towards his friends because of what some random people at a furry convention said to him?
Player T then sounds like she's depressed and dwelling on the negative repeatedly at the game. Is this how she is all the time, or is it getting worse or better? Either way she's apparently fairly fragile right now as well for some reason.
If you're friends with these two people letting it all play out just to see what happens shouldn't be an option. You need to talk to them and work out what's going on.
Yeah, it sounds like a mix of issues.
It sounds like T goes on about her issues as transgendered, which can be a bit frustrating if you're there to play and not be someone's support group. However, if T sees them as friends and this is their primary gathering, of course, she's going to view them as part of her support group like she would any other group of friends. But maybe she needs to be more respectful of other people's social agendas at the table.
It sounds like A, possibly due to other frustrations, has been undergoing a political viewpoint shift and has latched onto a way to absolve himself of his privilege guilt and is being a dick about it.
Now, I understand that you have to accept personal responsibility for the things you can change about yourself and your environment rather than just whine (which is why I don't have much sympathy for people who undergo unusual body modifications like ball bearings under the skin and then wonder why they can't get certain jobs). But there are a whole lot of things you can't directly change or the only way to alleviate them is to "stay in the closet" which is contrary to the whole point of being and accepting who and what you are and pushing for equal rights. And it is this last point that, based on the OP's posts, I think A is missing and why I think he's the more troubling of the two players involved in this brouhaha.
That's my gut reaction from what I've read of the OP's posts. I could be wrong. In fact, I would like to be wrong about A and he isn't as bad as I'm thinking. But my gut reaction wasn't very positive.
I can’t imagine this panel of doctors, lawyers, and military-folk—had they witnessed the interaction—would be like, “Oh, good on ya, A … way to hear what we said and apply it appropriately in your life and social group.”
Oh, I sure can. On the other hand, I can't really imagine the doctors, lawyers, and military types who would embrace that sort of interaction being at a furry con in the first place.
Oh, I can. It's the closeted approach. Be however weird you want in private, but stay respectable and "normal" in public and you don't have to worry about your weirdness getting in the way of the rest of your ambitions.
As opposed to helping change the world so that trans people or other LGBTQ types can openly be themselves. And even the furries.
I can see your point. Fortunately, I do live and work in an area where people are usually pretty open about letting their freak flag fly.
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System Administrator
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What you say is true. But there are cases, where people commit suicide because they could not bear the load anymore others were placing on their shoulders. A could be someone who was at a point where he had to make a decision: Die or get rid of other people's baggage.
Casting him out of this gaming group might pose the same risk for his life as not listening to T's problems is for T's life.
We don't know. But for the A's reaction sounds like a scream for help.
41% of transgender men and women attempt to commit suicide most of which happens in the space between coming out and getting everything taken care of. That is starkly around 9x the national average which is why I bring it up specifically in regards to the transgender woman. Sure others might be in that situation but player T, it's an almost even bet whether she's contemplating taking her life. It's the only reason I bring it up. It's likely that she's seeing a therapist. It's generally required for medical care according the standards of care. A few people bypass that in the begining if they don't have access to decent therapists but the large portion of individuals receive therapy throughout their pre-transition and transition. Which is why I brought it up at all. It is a very difficult thing to have to go through.
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Oh, I sure can. On the other hand, I can't really imagine the doctors, lawyers, and military types who would embrace that sort of interaction being at a furry con in the first place.
I can’t imagine this panel of doctors, lawyers, and military-folk—had they witnessed the interaction—would be like, “Oh, good on ya, A … way to hear what we said and apply it appropriately in your life and social group.”
This is fair. I guess I was comparing these "respectable" people he met at the con to the people in similar roles that I respect in my own life ... which very well could be a massive mistake on my part. I hate to make the assumption that the doctors, lawyers, and military-folk at the con are any different than the ones I know, but then again ... I don't know what I don't know here.
The people I respect wouldn't applaud/condone me being so obnoxiously rude to my friend, especially regarding an issue that's so obviously painful for said friend.
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A's reaction is simply a reversal of cause and effect. People that are succeeding at life (military people still able bodied and sane enough to still be in the military) , lawyers and doctors are succeeding and thus not going to make excuses for their failures because they're not failing , not because just bucking up automatically leads to success.
41% of transgender men and women attempt to commit suicide most of which happens in the space between coming out and getting everything taken care of. That is starkly around 9x the national average which is why I bring it up specifically in regards to the transgender woman. Sure others might be in that situation but player T, it's an almost even bet whether she's contemplating taking her life. It's the only reason I bring it up. It's likely that she's seeing a therapist. It's generally required for medical care according the standards of care. A few people bypass that in the begining if they don't have access to decent therapists but the large portion of individuals receive therapy throughout their pre-transition and transition. Which is why I brought it up at all. It is a very difficult thing to have to go through.
What you say is true. But there are cases, where people commit suicide because they could not bear the load anymore others were placing on their shoulders. A could be someone who was at a point where he had to make a decision: Die or get rid of other people's baggage.
Casting him out of this gaming group might pose the same risk for his life as not listening to T's problems is for T's life.
We don't know. But for the A's reaction sounds like a scream for help.
She/he/they have lost their support from their friend. They are unhappy, they seem really angry, they will disrupt the game because THIS IS IMPORTANT to them, but the game is not the ground to find this battle or solve this issue. If a friend is "done with your cr*p" that is a really hard thing to hear, but everyone needs to regroup and get back to gaming - and use other parts of their free time to work through this, or not in the case of A. I somewhat admire A actually, reminds me of a positive change I made, and reminds me of an old high school buddy. It is true, some people can be a real drain and not giving up any more time for them can be a highly positive change - but this has caused problems for the game.
Very interested to hear of the outcome/s.
So one of my players, I'll call him Player A, has hit a moment in his life where he has moved beyond believing that he can save or help other people. He is focused on getting his act together, centering his life on himself and becoming "a respectable person with a future." He is cutting people who are "freaks" or refuse to take responsibility for their problems out of his life. Over the course of a few weeks he has gone from Social Justice Warrior to happily abandoning people around him in order to "unlock" his future. He is tolerant of people who don't have their crap together, but he isn't going to help them.
There is also a trans person, I'll call her Player T, in the group that has been ousted by Player A. Player T has been coming out as trans for the past year, and Player A has been supportive of her. However, Player A has made it quite clear to Player T that her problems are ~her~ problems, not his. It sounds like their friendship is dissolving, however it could implode into a nova as Player A has determined that the plight of trans people is their problem, and that he simply does not care in any way shape for form about them. From his perspective if they improve their image to being respectable people that they will rise out of the mire they have trapped themselves in.
So, what should I do here? Two former friends, one who used to be a white knight wanting to rise everyone up together and the other who was a close friend of this person, and now they have a concerted divide between them.
I am considering allowing it to play out just to see what happens.
So any news?
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I have a trans friend, who is not only young, but still earlier in coming into himself.
We meet to play Pokemon, and whilst we chit-chat before/after about life, when we are playing, it mostly all business(of Pokemon).
It's an outlet, that allows him to not have to focus on the changes in life.
It's just pure fun, enjoyed amongst friends.
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I keep seeing mod posts and thinking, "Ooh, is it finally getting locked?"
Alas.
;)
Well... I had to restrict myself to just posts by the OP, to keep my head clear of the wall of anger (ok I haven't read the angry posts but if it almost got the thread locked then that probably says enough).
My thoughts are "excellent philosophy player A... but poor execution."
"You should look and act respectable and own your failures and successes." to paraphrase. But acting respectable doesn't typically include being rude to others unless they REALLY ARE being disruptive to everyone. I am not sure how far player T was taking his transgender issues out on the group or even how badly it was disrupting things, but if T was once a friend there were nicer ways to steer him in a new direction than cutting down his rant right there at the table in front of everyone. The respectable thing might have been to take player T aside and let him know this wasn't the place or time to rant, to save it for after the game, please.
Acting respectable shouldn't JUST be in the board room, it should also be when around friends and acquaintances.
I don't think "respectable" in this context means respecting people - it seems to me it means fitting in and looking professional.
And FYI, the OP refers to T as "her", which I assume is her actual gender, not her assigned one.
I do believe the OP said ACT respectable not just look respectable. To behave in a way worthy of the respect of others, or at least that is my take. Standing up and facing your troubles head on is part of that, as is not letting your faults define you... but also being pointlessly rude is counter to that philosophy as well.
I never quite know what pronoun to use with transgendered... usually I just default to the generic "he" which seemed safe in this case since I have no idea which gender is being left and which one acquired. It's a bit confusing is all.
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When people say "he", or "transgendered man", they mean the person was born with female sex organs and has since come out as transgendered male. Vice versa. The terminology's tricky, but this is the standard assumption, and using the wrong pronoun can make you come off the way wrong way in some circumstances. :P
There was a funny post I once saw on tumblr from a transwoman listing "Pronouns I've heard applied to me". It started with the normal ones, then progressively got worse and worse. I think it wrapped up with "hellspawn".
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thejeff there is a wise saying that goes: "Life is 10% what happens to me and 90% how I react to it."
This philosophy is similar, that by taking charge and not giving in regardless of difficulty you can keep that 90% in a positive place. It isn't a claim that that is all you need, but rather that if your attitude stays good then what happens in your life will be far more likely to turn out for the best.
Success needs a little more than attitude in my opinion, it also needs opportunity... oddly a good attitude around the right people can create opportunity. It doesn't guarantee it, but a negative attitude almost always kills any opportunity.
...She/he/they have lost their support from their friend. They are unhappy, they seem really angry, they will disrupt the game because THIS IS IMPORTANT to them, but the game is not the ground to find this battle or solve this issue. If a friend is "done with your cr*p" that is a really hard thing to hear, but everyone needs to regroup and get back to gaming - and use other parts of their free time to work through this, or not in the case of A. I somewhat admire A actually, reminds me of a positive change I made, and reminds me of an old high school buddy. It is true, some people can be a real drain and not giving up any more time for them41% of transgender men and women attempt to commit suicide most of which happens in the space between coming out and getting everything taken care of. That is starkly around 9x the national average which is why I bring it up specifically in regards to the transgender woman. Sure others might be in that situation but player T, it's an almost even bet whether she's contemplating taking her life. It's the only reason I bring it up. It's likely that she's seeing a therapist. It's generally required for medical care according the standards of care. A few people bypass that in the begining if they don't have access to decent therapists but the large portion of individuals receive therapy throughout their pre-transition and transition. Which is why I brought it up at all. It is a very difficult thing to have to go through.
What you say is true. But there are cases, where people commit suicide because they could not bear the load anymore others were placing on their shoulders. A could be someone who was at a point where he had to make a decision: Die or get rid of other people's baggage.
Casting him out of this gaming group might pose the same risk for his life as not listening to T's problems is for T's life.
We don't know. But for the A's reaction sounds like a scream for help.
Nope, not what I said. So I'll put it like this. A person may indeed be at a higher risk of suicide and may be going through a tough phase - but people can and indeed do get tired of others, and if they are saying the wrong thing or coming across too strong in looking for sympathy/help or a listening ear that can really turn people against them. Eventually people have enough. A seems like they have had quite enough, and the first poster seems to indicate they have given up their political allegiances and causes as well. They are tired of that game, and they are moving on.
Other than that we seem in some agreement which is pleasing to me.
Aranna is breaking out the wisdom. ;)
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Is Empathy expected of us on these boards Liz? It's not a quality everyone has in similar portions.
EDITED for clarity: naturally, as you request civility is important, but 'understanding/sharing another's feelings' is a far leap from being respectful and courteous.
Understanding that there is a living, breathing person behind the image and avatar name goes a very long way in discussions on the internet, I've found. You don't have to agree with somebody else's views, thoughts, opinions, or emotions, but you do have to recognize that they have a right to express them—civilly, of course. :D
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Oh, sure, says Liz Courts. I'm pretty sure she's not even real. She's probably one of those ghosts who leaves her coat in cars, and when people go to the address to return it, it's all "Why, that's impossible. Liz Courts died ten years ago in a freak gninja explosion."
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Strangest reply to a moderator I've ever read.
Strangest reply to a moderator I've ever read.
Have... have you been around these forums, long?
Strangest reply to a moderator I've ever read.Have... have you been around these forums, long?
LOL
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In this case, I was assuming the OP was using T's preferred pronoun.
I'll go with this presumption for this ^ post (for the record).
Also, I'll be repeatedly using thejeff's posts (despite the fact that he's well spoken and reasonable), because, in addition to taking a slightly different stance than mine, he's well-spoken and reasonable, and it makes it easy to have a conversation and dialogue instead of "wat."-fest.
Most importantly, however, anything I say here is taken from my own experiences and views. It's going to be weighted that way. I can't help it, I'm afraid - much like thejeff says, we can't say for sure, we can only go with what we're presented, and, in that light, much like all of us, I bring my own baggage and history and ideas of the surrounding environment and table presumptions. Disregard things that aren't true.
H'okay, first of all:
- the struggles a trans person has to go through are extreme and support groups are absolutely necessary; there is absolutely a need for support from people who care about you, regardless of who you are, in fact
- the loss of a strong "champion" can be emotionally devastating
- people tend to react to pain with frustration, this is natural
Upon reviewing the statements, second of all:
- "A" doesn't seem to be malevolent, except in some non-quoted ideas attributed to him (and even then the statements can definitively be taken in a non-malevolent manner)
- as others have noted too much pressure, negativity, monomania, or overbearing focus can crush your ability to care
- it sounds like "A" was a focus of taking on burdens for a long time, but recently decided against that, hence the division
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I don't think "respectable" in this context means respecting people - it seems to me it means fitting in and looking professional.
One of the weird things that I've run into is the idea that one can (and should) be able to actively resist "fitting in" and be totally accepted by anyone or everyone despite that.
This... this is a really, really weird concept. See,
Oh, I can. It's the closeted approach. Be however weird you want in private, but stay respectable and "normal" in public and you don't have to worry about your weirdness getting in the way of the rest of your ambitions.
... is not the way I look at this at all.
There is, absolutely, a certain amount of decorum that is fundamentally required of people outside of their own homes. This comes with social expectations of dress, conduct, and general presentation. To argue that society should not have those is... naive, at best, which is how these comments (intentionally or not) come off.
To argue that society's current standards are not the correct ones, on the other hand, is reasonable, but there is naturally going to be some variation on how far or in what direction something goes. Beyond a certain point, a given person will look at something and go, "That's practically the same as not having any standards at all." which, while untrue, reinforces my point that society - any society - will have standards that you, personally, may or may not agree with or live up to by virtue of being yourself.
It is, then, not your personal mission to change that society (something that is fundamentally impossible), but to determine how best to live in it.
I don't like ties. I think the insistence of ties for "professional" attire is... doofy. They don't particularly look good (certain exceptions notwithstanding) and they're just irritating over-all. I will, however, wear ties to work, if that's what is required. I do not like dress slacks. They feel terrible - prickly, static-charged, and overly slick. Blech. I will, however, wear dress slacks to work, if that is required.
Let's say that (for some reason) I have an ethical or moral compunction against doing that (I don't know, there are better examples, but as a finite person, I'm not coming up with them at present). If I refuse to do that (something that is definitely my right and, in this case, my ethical or moral responsibility), I will be dropped from the professional environment that I was attempting to place myself within (something that is the right and responsibility of said professional environment). In this case, both I and the organization that terminated my employment did the right thing.
This is how society works.
Let me be clear: this is how all society works.
- Business works like this.
- Social groups work like this.
- Religious groups work like this.
- Gaming tables and groups work like this.
- Paizo Messageboards (and any forum in general) works like this.
Do they all have the same standards? No. Absolutely not.
But they all have standards. It is not your job to change those standards, though you are welcome to try, if you feel that you can handle it. Just be aware, if you attempt to take on that burden, but can't handle it, let go of that burden. There is no responsibility on your part to change everyone around you and, in fact, it's not really possible to do so anyway (so, you know, manage your own expectations).
What is your job in this case (other than, you know, your job(s), whatever that (those?) may be)? Finding out whether you have it within you to generally live up to that expected standard and either doing so, attempting to change it by being yourself and engaging in reasonable discourse (one way or another, though see above), or choosing not to associate yourself with the thing that has unacceptable standards.
(This is not to say that you cannot enact change, but rather you need patience, fortitude, and persistence, as well as a gentle hand, and honorable mein to achieve best results. Otherwise, you're going to end up with enemies instead of friends.)
This is not an easy choice. It can have lasting repercussions, and has a solid chance of regret coming along with it, and lots of pain.
But that pain is human. It's natural. And it's not a bad thing. It must be dealt with, and you need support groups for it, but you also need to express it in proper confines and in proper ways.
No one will do this all the time. Mistakes will be made. This is human, too.
The best thing for all parties in this case, is to forgive and move on.
In this case, from the actual quotes, it seems like one person - A - is tired of being an emotional support. Perhaps it's because his politics have changed. Perhaps it's because he's hit an epiphany. Perhaps it's more than that. Perhaps less. Perhaps its justified. Perhaps its not. I don't know. But continuing to dump on him is not going to help either, even if person T needs an emotional support. In fact, continuing to dump on him will actively deteriorate the situation.
It may simply be that person T can't help herself. She feels like she's falling and is desperately reaching out, clinging to anyone or anything she can as an emotional anchor. She does so to person A, but he is no longer able to be that anchor for whatever reason. In her pain at his (seeming to her) betrayal (which to him it is not) she lashes out - she is hurt and wants him to hurt as well. This is fundamentally human behavior. Heck, it's fundamentally natural: it is for this reason that you don't approach a non-sedated wounded animal without lots of skill and know-how and even then there is an element of luck and and lots of caution. This lashing out, however, is going to do nothing but sour him further.
She needs a support group. She is, naturally, seeking it in her friend A. He is unable (for whatever reason) to be that support, meaning she needs to find another.
And, again, continuing to try to use him as a dumping ground for personal issues - which is a normal, natural reaction for friends, and not inherently a bad thing - is going to end in nothing but pain for the both of them.
The likelihood of convincing him that he's in the wrong at the present state is roughly nil, especially if epithets like "cis-scum" have been used in honest venom. The likelihood of convincing her to find a different avenue to express herself is marginally more likely to be successful. Thus, I recommend that.
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A major problem I often run into with those who are focused on the LGBTQ issues as culture they are a part of, is an unreasonable discourse with those who are interested in maintaining an educational dialogue, combined with an absolute insistence that those who do not use the modes of speech that they use are "doing it wrong" and are thus subject to shaming and shunning. ()
Let me try to be clear, again: many who are deeply into the broader LGBTQ culture are, in fact, excellent, reasonable people; this includes quite a number here on the Paizo threads. I am not talking about those people when I talk about LGBTQ-cultured folk with problems. Instead, I am talking about the fact that there is a sub-culture that is built upon and out of that culture who are virulent, angry, and arrogant in the extreme. This is exceedingly similar to (and just as frustrating and wrong-headed as) certain conservative Christian sub-cultures.
The main problem that I have, often, is that the unreasonable side and voices often drowns the more reasonable side. (Again, this can feel like certain conservative Christian groups.)
Point in fact, it took me many, many years to accept that "Social Justice" was a good thing - not because I don't like justice for society, but because the only people I ever ran into who spoke about it were hateful and abusive. Whenever I would attempt to open a dialogue, it was always met with immediate derision and contempt unless I agreed with all of their views from top to bottom, regardless of how far "left" they went.
Was I giving soup to homeless? Clearly I'm an awful person interested in keeping the established elite in power and privilege.
Was I hoping to be able to have conversations with a friend for a literal eternity, hanging out and having a great time? I hate everyone and want them to burn.
Was I explaining that I'm Native American mixed with Scottish? I'm racist and want to return to the Antebellum South.
Was I excited about the newest video game? I'm an awful person and should die. Preferably slowly.
This was how conversations went. This - clearly - burns people. It is human nature to begin to associate certain names with the people who verbally and vocally self-identify as such.
These days, I am very much pro-social justice as an idea. I am still leery of those who overly-loudly champion the idea of everyone being into social justice.
I have only moved away from my unilateral rejection by a combination of self-education (which is exceptionally difficult for someone with attention deficit and dyslexia), and a relatively rare few vocal folk who were willing to put up with and listen to me and respond in a reasonable manner. (Not spitefully saying, "die, cis-scum" in fury during casual conversation, as you may well imagine, helped immensely.)
And, again, let me be clear: I empathize thoroughly with those who have been through similar experiences with "Christian" groups. I get it. It's no wonder you're "once-bitten twice shy" - I am, too (well, I think we can all agree we're all probably bitten far more than once).
The other side of the coin is the use of "the past year". That can be a long time to hear peoples' problems.
()
The situation is something that can whether even very good friends. People - for good or ill - only have so much they can give. And sometimes friends - unintentionally - just demand and take more than a person has. This is human on both counts. This is normal.
I once had a friend in High School. Let's call him Gill, for this. Gill was a smart, clever guy. We had many similar interests (though I never could get into professional wrestling, because blech - sorry to those who like it, feel free, just not my thing). We both tended towards introversion. We liked books and reading and had a very deep regard for (our own) family. Gill and I never became good friends, despite every overture I ever made.
Mostly, from my perspective at least, this seemed to be on his part. I don't know why, but he never really seemed to like me.
But on my part, as my Junior year progressed, I really soured on even trying to be around him. I went from trying to make overtures to trying to avoid him, and I did so unconsciously.
See, the guy was always complaining. Always. About everything. Someone in his family was always sick, or he felt 'old', or he couldn't handle the stress of school, or something. Most creative fellow I've ever known... entirely devoted to why his life always sucked and it was terrible being him.
I and another guy who'd gotten along with neither of us (he was the "jock" of the group - something Gill and I could never match) were all part of a non-class period that year together: basically office-assistants where we went around doing chores for the school office. Spent a loooooot of time together as a result.
For the first half of the year, I offered to talk with and listen to Gill. I continually attempted to be a support, and aid. He didn't like me, but that didn't matter - it seemed like he needed someone. But as the year went on, it got old. I'd hear the same complaints - again - and they'd be things that, by that point, it made no sense to hear again. Plus, it'd be during an attempt at focusing and concentrating on something else. It became hard. Grating.
It wasn't that I didn't care. I wanted his life to be better. But I couldn't stand to hear the same thing one more time.
Incidentally, it was the summer previous that my first nephew and niece had been born - four months premature, my nephew, having forced the birth, died almost immediately, but, in so doing, had saved my niece's life. The boy had been infected somehow, you see, and had they stayed longer, the girl would have been infected too - both would have been stillborn. My sister had been in the hospital for months, being in bad condition herself (she'd already been in the hospital because the pregnancy wasn't going well), not to mention my niece. It was a very traumatic and defining moment in my life.
Thus, I empathized with his worries about his family. But his constant complaining of incidents that were six months past got old after hearing about it for four.
Eventually, once, when he was complaining and Jock asked him to stop whining all the time, he came back with a sharp retort, talking about how no one understood him or loved their family as much or something. (I don't know, exactly, it's been more than fifteen years by now.) Regardless, in this case, my reaction wasn't what I'd hope it would be: I broke down and yelled at him (well, gutterally went "Aaarrrrrgggh!"). I told him - in a loud voice - that he wasn't the only one with problems and he needed to stop. dwelling. on. the. bad. I explained my own family trauma last summer, and pointedly reminded him of the good things he's experienced. (Though I had to clarify one point. Frustrated with my own loss of control, I'd cut myself off half-way through my loud-voice rant, and he'd thought I'd lost my sister. Eeeeemmmmmmbarrassing for me to explain. Ah, youth.)
This worked out. Gill started to be better, the three of us bonded (somewhat), and we all had a reasonably acceptable relationship for the rest of the Junior and Senior year.
In our case, however, we were three teen boys. It worked out because, however bad our situation, there were always worse situations, and Gill really did need to get over it. He wasn't dealing with "real" depression or other serious hormonal issues.
Do not do what I did, nor should you allow A to do what I did.
This case is different because T is going through something far more serious in Transition. It will (likely) not end as well.
I give my own story, however, to explain: Gill seemed like he needed support. It was offered, but there was only so much patience that could be given. Hence a snap.
A has clearly run out of support and patience. This is extremely regrettable, but that's how it is. If this situation is allowed to continue, a very strong snap will happen, and that will be the end of things, but in a very bad way. Beyond that, keep Lissa's mentioning of statistics in mind: such a blow-up could end very, very badly indeed. Just talking to A is not likely to suddenly regrow that patience from exhaustion.
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All of this is why I say: T needs to find a support group away from A. If you can think of one, help her, if you know how. If you can't, try to encourage her to do something. And try to arrange things so that A and T do not bring their baggage to the table.
(I am not talking about their identity. I am talking about their discussions about their identity. These are two different things.)
I really hope all things go well. Peace to you, and God bless you all.
EDIT: Added spoilers for ease of navigation and reading, as well as a couple of points of clarification. Big post+ADD = I drop things sometimes. Sorry! :/
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but you do have to recognize that they have a right to express them—civilly, of course. :D
Liz I've seen several post disappear from this thread that expressed opinions with civility so obviously this is a right we do not have, it's a right you grant us.
Paizo staff seems hypersensitive about Transgenderism/gay conversations. I understand that need for moderation as these can be hot button topics but I've seen posts disappear that defiantly do not breach the user agreement. Please slow down and read the posts.
Each post that is deleted is a persons expression/opinion. Remember there is a person behind each avatar. Deleting a post is just as good as saying "your opinion is not wanted".
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Muad, there are many reasons a post might be deleted. For instance, they might be quoting or replying to a delete-worthy post. They might also be risking dangerous threadjacks (such as bringing up abortion issues in a paladin thread). Alternatively, they might just not be as civil as you think—personal views can really warp perspective on these matters.
I'm speaking as someone who's probably at least in the Top Fifty for "guys who get their posts deleted a lot".
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