Duettist familiar activating Raging Song?

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Raging Song wrote:

A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances.

Duettist Bard wrote:

At 4th level, a duettist's familiar learns how to create supernatural effects with its performances, just like its master. The familiar can use any of its master's bardic performances, but only the familiar or the duettist can have a performance active at any given time, not both.

I read that as a Duettist Bard 4/Skald 1 can use their familiar to start a Raging Song. Does that sound right? I've got a Skald and am considering a Duettist dip.

[Trekkie90909]

The familiar can use its master's bardic performances; raging song is not a bardic performance, the familiar cannot use raging song.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

It explicitly says that it counts as a bardic performance, I'm not sure how you get "raging song is not a bardic performance"?

But that's also why I'm checking.

[Jeff Merola]

It counts as a bardic performance for things that affect bardic performances. It's debatable as to whether or not the Duettist ability is one that affects bardic performances.

[Trekkie90909]

The exact text for raging song is:

Raging Song wrote:

A raging song counts as the bard's bardic performance special ability for any effect that affects bardic performances.

It is still a separate class ability, it simply allows you to use spells or feats which would affect a bardic performance.

The exact text for the duettist ability is:

Duettist wrote:

The familiar can use any of its master's bardic performances, but only the familiar or the duettist can have a performance active at any given time, not both.

This allows the familiar access to the bard's bardic performances. The only way it affects a bardic performance is that it ends the bard's current performance if the familiar begins one.

The interaction is thus:
The bard 4/skald 1 can use bardic performances or raging song as normal.
The familiar can use bardic performances.

If the familiar begins a bardic performance it ends any bardic performances or raging song from the bard/skald.
If the bard/skald begins either performance or song it ends the performance of the familiar.

[Markov Spiked Chain]

Trekkie, I don't see why you're reading Raging Song as a not being a bardic performance for being able to start with the familiar, but being a bardic performance for whether both can be active at the same time.

That brings up a second, more general question I suppose:
How do Raging Song and Bardic Performance work on a Skald/Bard?
Are rounds supposed to be tracked separately (presumably?)
With Cha as a base for both (yes?)
Can you have a Raging Song and Bardic Performance active at the same time (is the "only one bardic performance" rule an "effect", to use Jeff's phrasing?)

Skald/Bard is a bigger can of worms than I thought. :)

[cavernshark]

Markov Spiked Chain wrote:

Trekkie, I don't see why you're reading Raging Song as a not being a bardic performance for being able to start with the familiar, but being a bardic performance for whether both can be active at the same time.

That brings up a second, more general question I suppose:
How do Raging Song and Bardic Performance work on a Skald/Bard?
Are rounds supposed to be tracked separately (presumably?)
With Cha as a base for both (yes?)
Can you have a Raging Song and Bardic Performance active at the same time (is the "only one bardic performance" rule an "effect", to use Jeff's phrasing?)

Skald/Bard is a bigger can of worms than I thought. :)

While I won't claim to know the specific answers to these questions, there's a pretty good precedent in the FAQs about Channel Energy.

FAQ on stacking channel pools - potentially relevant given that Bardic Performance and Channel are both flexible resource pools of similar "types" granted from multiple classes.
FAQ on Extra Channel - potentially relevant for feats like Extra Bardic Performance

Given the treatment of channel, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to track Skald and Bard performance separately, even if feats can modify both (e.g. Lingering Performance).

[DeathlessOne]

cavernshark wrote:

While I won't claim to know the specific answers to these questions, there's a pretty good precedent in the FAQs about Channel Energy.

FAQ on stacking channel pools - potentially relevant given that Bardic Performance and Channel are both flexible resource pools of similar "types" granted from multiple classes.
FAQ on Extra Channel - potentially relevant for feats like Extra Bardic Performance

Given the treatment of channel, I don't think it'd be unreasonable to track Skald and Bard performance separately, even if feats can modify both (e.g. Lingering Performance).

While I understand trekkie's stance (he's right, its not the SAME ability), they are close enough that I am in agreement with cavernshark. They are similar enough to each other for this purpose. I'd say track the uses separately and enforce the limit on only one 'performance' at a time.