Is master summoner archetype worth taking?


Advice


I'm playing 11 lvl pure summoner, but thanks to the retraining rules and willingness of DM I can take master summoner archetype.
Is it worth taking?
We have 4 people party(cleric, magus, alchemist and me summoner) and we are playing jade regent campaing.
Will losing eidolon and gaining multiple summons contribute to this party?

I'm thinking about this 4th day, can't concentrate in work. That's why I will gladly hear opinions.


Master Summoner is generally considered to be the most powerful Summoner and one of the most powerful characters at all.

You can solve a lot of problems by flooding the field with bodies, and losing Eidolon points doesn't matter overmuch-- you can use it to run as a scout or support-minion just fine. It doesn't need to be in battles.


I think it is worth avoiding. It slows the game Down with all the summond monsters and it have only that one trick that can do it all.
It is a very powerfull option but boring for the rest of the party.


We are playing online(thanks to ttoprpg and skype), thanks to binds game won't be slowed down. But you are right, I am afraid that game would become boring for other players.

Anyone got some experience playing master summoner?


I have GM'd for one. If you use your summons a lot and use them well the GM will be forced to raise the difficulty of the encounters. If he does not have the free time to alter encounters it could become an issue.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I've played a Master Summoner. It is very easy to get out of control with summons, even if you do resolve their turns quickly. In the game I was in, the other players would joke, albeit goodnaturedly, that if I wanted I could take on a boss in the AP we were in by myself. My character's main tactic was to summon Eagles, multiple amounts of eagles, and I took feats to give me extras per use of a higher level summon. I could completely lock down and tank a boss. Even though my eagles were only doing like +5 1d4+2 damage, the fact that I could have about 15 attacks go off every round meant that I could shred things by virtue of so many attack chances proccing critical hit and just the sheer amount of them. Also being able to summon them into flanking position already.

If you are dead set on playing Master Summoner, I recommend setting limits for yourself. Recognize that if you just spam summons, you're going to have a problem. Limit yourself to only a few active at a time, or give yourself a theme of what type of creatures your character likes to summon. Angels, demons, devils, birds, etc. You could also choose summons for utility rather than power or number of attacks. My character also liked Satyrs/Fauns for their ranged attacks/spells, and Silvanshees and Agathions for their healing abilities.

Also, get really familiar with the Summon Monster rules. You cannot command your summons, only tell them to attack, and stop attacking. Their tactics and what they do is entirely up to them, unless you actually share a language with them and can speak with them. So many wouldn't even get into flanking position unless you summon them there. So play them as they should be played, or let the GM play them if their willing based on what they feel the general intelligence level/instinct of the monster is. I've also heard people suggest you let other party members control certain summons.

EDIT: This was in a game with only 3 PCs, including my character. I picked Master Summoner for the extra bodies, since we were worried we wouldn't be able to keep up with an AP made for 4 people. Well, it worked. It would probably even work with only 1 or 2 PCs.


I was thinking about taking master summoner and limiting myself to just few summons to not anger other players and going full out only at dire situations. I think I kinda like my eidolon, and most likely will stick to pure summoner.

Scarab Sages

I played a Master Summoner in The Dragon's Demand, and I enjoyed it. It's more like what I wanted out of the Summoner class - the ability to spit out monsters on the basis of what the situation could most use rather than just palling around with one. It sounds like it will complement your party as you describe it very well, to boot. I'd suggest working with your DM to establish a stable of monsters beyond the core list they'll permit you to summon. With regard to slowing the game down, just keep the necessary monster statistics ready for quick access and use the "summoning more of a weaker grade of monster" option sparingly.


Have you felt yourself too weak or ineffective as a standard Summoner? If not, then I'd say don't go Master Summoner. You have plenty of players. Unless you've found yourself saying: "Man! If only I could have summoned another 4/8/12 creatures, we would have prevailed!", don't. There's little fun (imho) in playing a character that you have to hold back on just so that you don't bog down the game or marginalize your fellow players.


Our DM doesn't allow resting in most of dungeons so I would have to limit myself anyway. I'm not allowed to summon monsters not from core list(and those added in jade regent).


I've played one up to 5th level. Keep your nova moments to a minimum and you'll have a flexible bag of tricks that requires a minimum of book keeping. Its great to run an effective battlefield controller without having to keep 6 pages of inventory notes. Just make sure you've got the correct stats for your creatures on notecards or somewhere handy - looking things up takes a lot of time. Having multiple sets of dice and rolling them all at once can speed things up, too.

Try to restrict yourself to 2 summons at a time. By the time you can whip out 2-5 eagles at a shot they're almost not worth summoning unless you're fighting a mob of low-class opposition. I found that it was rare to have more than 2 summons worth of critters on the battlemat anyway. If you're summoning that many creatures your enemies are likely killing a bunch per round, so you're just replacing the fallen if you're still summoning after round 3.

You might have the occasional action economy issue if you keep the eidolon out. It takes a standard action to dismiss them, and you're limited to your eidolon and 1 summon while they're present. In close affairs when you don't have enough warning to dismiss them, you won't be able to nova your summons.

There are a number of guides for summoners. The "specialist sorcerer" guide advocates a similar approach to yours.


The question is if lesser eidolon of summoning master qualify for evolutions at the minimal level written at their(evolutions) descriptions or she needs level two times higher. I think the lesser eidolon description is a bit unclear and at least for me it is hard to say.


Pathfinder Lost Omens, Rulebook Subscriber

I believe you need a higher total Eidolon level to qualify for some of the more powerful evolutions for your summon.


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The evolutions themselves say only about summoner level though.

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