Bane says that you can pick a subtype for Outsiders. Demon and Evil are both subtypes so both are rules legal though one is clearly inferior to the other from a "I want to kill evil" perspective. Published adventurers and even the rule books are filled with examples of suboptimal but "flavorful" items; the axe your players found would just seem to be one of them. As to why someone would make such a weapon from an in-universe perspective, perhaps it was devil made? Devils and demons fight all the time and they certainly wouldn't want any of their captured weapons to be useful against themselves.
Pretty sure it's supposed to be a specific subtype, otherwise it makes bane way better than it's supposed to be. Demon-bane would be legit, evil outsider-bane shouldn't be.
Nope, evil is a subtype.
That's how it works.
I don't think demon is even an "outsider" type, technically.
Edit: it is a subtype of outsider, my bad.
Without being familiar with the item, I'd say its reflecting the item's special purpose, and possibly its makers.
For example, I'd expect a Hellknight forged bane weapon to be Chaotic Outsider or Demon Bane, rather than Evil Outsider Bane.
And a really amusing ramification - the demon bane weapon still works on demons who've reformed enough to lose their [Evil] descriptor.
It's also worth noting that not all evil outsiders are actually [Evil] subtype. Evil Outsider Bane isn't worth squat against rakshasa or onis.
And a really amusing ramification - the demon bane weapon still works on demons who've reformed enough to lose their [Evil] descriptor.
As I understand it, the above is not true. You can have a LG (alignment) and an [evil] subtype. Changing the alignment doesn't change the subtype since your body is made of evil stuff. You wouldn't get rid of the Evil subtype.
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This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the evil-aligned outer planes. Evil outsiders are also called fiends. Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype. Any effect that depends on alignment affects a creature with this subtype as if the creature has an evil alignment, no matter what its alignment actually is. The creature also suffers effects according to its actual alignment. A creature with the evil subtype overcomes damage reduction as if its natural weapons and any weapons it wields are evil-aligned (see Damage Reduction, page 299).
And a really amusing ramification - the demon bane weapon still works on demons who've reformed enough to lose their [Evil] descriptor.As I understand it, the above is not true. You can have a LG (alignment) and an [evil] subtype. Changing the alignment doesn't change the subtype since your body is made of evil stuff. You wouldn't get rid of the Evil subtype.
That is not how things actually worked for the one redeemed demon in Pathfinder that I'm aware of.
I'm aware that WotC published a redeemed succubus paladin that used a different way of doing things, but that was 3.5 and this is Pathfinder.
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While some outsiders are Evil by nature, I honestly do believe that Evil is not subtype required for Bane Weapon Enhancement. Here is quick note what Bane says:
A bane weapon excels against certain foes. Against a designated foe, the weapon's enhancement bonus is +2 better than its actual bonus. It also deals an extra 2d6 points of damage against such foes. To randomly determine a weapon's designated foe, roll on the following table.
d% Designated Foe
01—05 Aberrations
06—09 Animals
10—16 Constructs
17—22 Dragons
23—27 Fey
28—60 Humanoids (pick one subtype)
61—65 Magical beasts
66—70 Monstrous humanoids
71—72 Oozes
73—88 Outsiders (pick one subtype)
89—90 Plants
91—98 Undead
99—100 Vermin
It would imply that you use outsider subtype not alignment subtype. It seems pretty clear cut to me. It's not too uncommon to find printed mistakes in paizo books.
It would imply that you use outsider subtype not alignment subtype. It seems pretty clear cut to me. It's not too uncommon to find printed mistakes in paizo books.
[Evil] is an outsider subtype. Its description even says so. It is a valid choice for a Bane weapon (and slaying arrows, which also work with creature types\subtypes).
This subtype is usually applied to outsiders native to the evil-aligned outer planes.
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I don't think anyone's pointed out yet this FAQ, which confirms that outsider (evil) is a valid choice for a Bane weapon.
If you have multiple bane effects on a weapon and attack a creature against which more than one bane applies (such as a chaotic- and evil-outsider bane weapon used against a demon), the effects do not stack: the weapon's enhancement bonus is only +2 higher than its actual enhancement bonus, and it only deals +2d6 points of damage against that opponent.
That is not how things actually worked for the one redeemed demon in Pathfinder that I'm aware of.
** spoiler omitted **
I'm aware that WotC published a redeemed succubus paladin that used a different way of doing things, but that was 3.5 and this is Pathfinder.
The stated rule in the PF Bestiary (page 311-312) is as quoted above: Most creatures that have this subtype also have evil alignments; however, if their alignments change, they still retain the subtype.
The writers of Wrath of the Righteous may have been in error, or they may have decided that the particular circumstances of that redemption merited special treatment.
Thematics are important. A sword that says "Aspis Consortium Bane" tells you a lot about the person who made it.
True. You could also add some thematics to the creation of such weapons that would support more specific bane subtypes. For example, creating a bane weapon might require materials taken from the creature it is intended to be effective against, such as blood or bone. If you use only demon blood or bone, you get a demonbane weapon - the more general bane effect requires using blood from devils and daemons as well. In areas such as the Worldwound where demons are plentiful, it'll be easier to make a demonbane weapon than an evil outsider bane weapon, and the former will be generally as valuable because when will you be fighting devils?
Alternatively, spontaneous enhancement of significant items might lead to demonbane swords. A powerful paladin fell defending a church and those huddled within from a demon army; thereafter the sword was found to be particularly potent against demons. The firstborn child of a particular noble house is sworn to hunt the demon that cursed their lands; over generations their heirloom sword has come to share their thirst for demon blood.
@ Weirdo: The NPC in Wrath of the Righteous losing her [Evil] subtype is specifically called out in her stat block, under her special abilities. So intentional exception by the author.
She's who I was thinking of, actually.
@ Malag - the alignment descriptors for outsiders actually have more to due with plane of origin than with alignment itself.
(Random aside: Considering that Kytons hail from the Plane of Shadow, Kytons getting the lawful and evil subtypes actually makes their whole race an exception to the normal outsider subtype rules. Though I suppose they originally came from Hell...)
