Hi, dear Paizo's community
I'm currently playing Skulls and Shackles and our group is currently having a problem of protecting his main damage dealer, THE archer Ranger. The ranger is being focused by every monster, every fight.
Our group consist of:
- Half-Orc (being Reincarnated into a gnome) Besmara Bad touch Cleric 13th
- Human TwF Greater Vanish Ninja 13th
- Half-elf Archer Ranger(Freebooter) 13th
- Me, Tengu Gish Bard(Buccaneer) 13th
Bard and Ninja deal a lot of damage but... nothing near as the output of the archer. Then, he's the primary target of every fight and he's often drop to zero hp in 1rnd (he have the best AC/health of our group...). I (Gish Bard w/ miror images/displacement) try to stand between ennemies and him in every fight, casting Greater Invisibility if needed, but I consistently fail to protect him in big fight. I understand our GM to focus him, he deal to much damage and end encounter so quickly (ennemies know it too!), but, it's just so frustating for the player to being shut down and watching the group trying to survive the rest of the fight without their main damage source.
He tried invisibility -> Faced True Seeing, See Invisibility or Invibility Purge each time
He tried fly -> Face another archer or flying monsters
He tried being farther -> Faced Teleporting Devils
He tried stand behind -> Faced ridiculous grappling reach monsters
Is there some kind of Spells, Magic Items of another tacticas we could use to help him? If I can manage to ensure him 1-2 round of shooting we've probably won the fight.
We had an argument last game, we found a belt (+4Con, +4Dex) and he said he need that Con boost, more than our Ninja (I already bought mine :D). But I think we could have a better solution than giving him more HP to survive since I realy believe Con should be more useful on a frontline character...
Thanks!
*GM is fairplay and strictly follow the AP.
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As a 10th level cleric in a game, I've had a lot of luck with Shield Other. Give it a try.
Shield other from the cleric
UMD + wand of stoneskin (very expensive)
Freedom of movement from cleric or ring
You might have to pull out big guns and use antagonize
A protector with the bodyguard feat and a set of +3 benevolent armor can give a quick +5 to AC against melee attacks. Archon Diversion and a Ring of Tactical Precision can jump the AC boost to +8 and allow you to redirect one attack a round.
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Blur on him, freedom of movement on him. Would suggest tripping but no 2 handed martials or big @ss druids. Also, how about some difficult terrain creation, like a umd scroll of stonecall...or if you really want to get evil, fit the whole party with goz masks and run around with an eversmoking bottle. You can't hit what you can't see.
Hi, dear Paizo's community
I'm currently playing Skulls and Shackles and our group is currently having a problem of protecting his main damage dealer, THE archer Ranger. The ranger is being focused by every monster, every fight.
Our group consist of:
- Half-Orc (being Reincarnated into a gnome) Besmara Bad touch Cleric 13th
- Human TwF Greater Vanish Ninja 13th
- Half-elf Archer Ranger(Freebooter) 13th
- Me, Tengu Gish Bard(Buccaneer) 13thBard and Ninja deal a lot of damage but... nothing near as the output of the archer. Then, he's the primary target of every fight and he's often drop to zero hp in 1rnd (he have the best AC/health of our group...). I (Gish Bard w/ miror images/displacement) try to stand between ennemies and him in every fight, casting Greater Invisibility if needed, but I consistently fail to protect him in big fight. I understand our GM to focus him, he deal to much damage and end encounter so quickly (ennemies know it too!), but, it's just so frustating for the player to being shut down and watching the group trying to survive the rest of the fight without their main damage source.
** spoiler omitted **
Is there some kind of Spells, Magic Items of another tacticas we could use to help him? If I can manage to ensure him 1-2 round of shooting we've probably won the fight.
We had an argument last game, we found a belt (+4Con, +4Dex) and he said he need that Con boost, more than our Ninja (I already bought mine :D). But I think we could have a better solution than giving him more HP to survive since I realy believe Con should be more useful on a frontline character...
Thanks!
*GM is fairplay and strictly follow the AP.
Could you go more into detail for each example?
If something has see invis then it is likely a caster or an outsider. If it is a caster then focus fire on the caster. If it is an outsider it likely has SLA's but no ranged weapons so it has to teleport. Teleporting is a standard action. There is a feat the archer can take that allows him to fire his bow in melee without provoking. After 2 rounds of eating arrows the enemy should be dead even if it is CR=APL. If it is CR<APL but it has buddies then the rest of the party should be able to handle the lower level enemies. Summoning monsters will help eat some of those attacks. At level 13 you can get some good summons.
Invis purge likely means a cleric. Have the invisible ninja sunder the holy symbol, or ready an action to hit the caster forcing a high concentration check.
Before I go any further constitution is useful for anyone. For the grappling monsters freedom of movement should work. It has a long duration so if a fight is expected it can be cast in advance. Those other flying or archer monsters still should not be able to compete with your ranger. If there are a couple of them then the cleric can summon flying monsters. Also trying to help the party fly should also be on the list. That way the enemy's flight is less of a disadvantage.
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*GM is fairplay and strictly follow the AP.
Quick searches of The Price of Infamy:
True Seeing: One result. On a trap.
See Invisibility: 7 results, between 2 creatures, only one of which shows up in the AP (the other is in the Bestiary section, and is a god's Herald).
Invisibility Purge: 0 results.
Bows: 28 results, across 6 encounters/creatures.
Of these, only TWO have the bow as their weapon of choice, the others (save a group of CR 4 cannon fodder with crossbows) have specific tactics stating they ONLY use the bow if there is no target within melee reach whatsoever.
Devil: 52 results. Only TWO encounters, one of these being one of the bow using encounters.
Demon: For posterity, 9 results. No encounters.
Grapple/Grappling: 10 results. ONE creature.
Basically, if your GM has thrown all of that at you on a regular basis to shut down your Ranger, and claims he's "strictly following the AP", and not changing tactics or encounters, he's a bald faced liar.
Seems like a pretty clear case of the GM just taking a dislike to your Ranger, so there's nothing you can do to prevent it. Let him die and hope the GM has a hate-on for the character and not the player, I guess.
I thought that the GM was adjusting things. I just don't have the AP, so I couldn't check. With this new information I will say there is nothing that can be done.
I don't really have a problem with the changes in the abstract, for the record, merely the assertion that the changes are what the book says, and the frequency. You should still try and work around this stuff, malice or no, because it's common stuff.
@OP: the last few posters, wraith and rynjin especially, are easilly some of the most experienced and active posters on these forums. They and to lesser extent I all raised the question of the GMs intentions. I'd take a step back and look at the GMs actions and objectively look at this as a possibility. Rynjin provided hard data to show he is t following it strictly.
I propose that unless we suspect he is being dubious on purpose it is because he percieved the ranger as being an obstacle of some kind or that he has to fight them in order to make the encounter challenging. So I would suggest doing what one can to alter this perception and see if the situation changes.
What I am wondering is, if the GM goes out of his way to shut the archer down for every combat, or if he lets him have fun for a few combats, and then goes after him.
I am also wondering why the GM was "less than honest", assuming there was no misunderstanding, about running directly from the book. Just to be clear I am not blaming the GM. Maybe the group would complain about any deviations
For now I would suggest the OP try the above recommendations and see how that works.
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@OhnTheWay
I don't know much about your game honestly, but protecting single damage dealer is both effective and ineffective in terms of teamwork. If you manage to protect him, presumably, all goes well. If you don't, you are politely said, in a bad position.
What I would do in your place, is worry less about protecting archer, and worry more about increasing your own damage output. If all 4 of you are dealing consistent damage, your enemies will have to focus your entire party instead of single target.
All that on side, your archer buddy might consider toning down his "archerplay" a tiny bit. Maybe he will attract less attention then and hog less spotlight. I will in no way defend your GM's tactics, but if the archer is literally 1-shotting everything in 1 round, it becomes hard even for GM not to metagame, but it's still bad form of GMing to focus archer all the time.
Adam
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The "primary damage dealer" in a lvl 13 party is likely to be putting out a lot of damage. Intelligent enemies should reasonably target such a character, otherwise encounters become a cakewalk and the adventure loses any real challenge.
I suppose for me the question is, is the GM playing enemies appropriately? Is he tweaking encounters to ensure that the adventure is still challenging for the party?
I would want a GM to keep the adventure challenging.
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The "primary damage dealer" in a lvl 13 party is likely to be putting out a lot of damage. Intelligent enemies should reasonably target such a character, otherwise encounters become a cakewalk and the adventure loses any real challenge.
I suppose for me the question is, is the GM playing enemies appropriately? Is he tweaking encounters to ensure that the adventure is still challenging for the party?
I would want a GM to keep the adventure challenging.
Indeed. If the archer is not dogpiled, will he dominate every fight? If so, it's the ranger's player who has put the GM in a bind, rather than the GM who's put the party in a bind.
Advice for the GM who needs to deal with the Ranger Archer: Cast Dominate Person on the Ranger, and then force the Ranger to mow down the party. Rangers have weak Will saves, so even if they get a +2 bonus for doing something against their nature, they have a good chance of failing. Make sure the 'bad guy' is true neutral, so Protection from Evil won't thwart this tactic.
Advice for the GM who needs to deal with the Ranger Archer: Cast Dominate Person on the Ranger, and then force the Ranger to mow down the party. Rangers have weak Will saves, so even if they get a +2 bonus for doing something against their nature, they have a good chance of failing. Make sure the 'bad guy' is true neutral, so Protection from Evil won't thwart this tactic.
They also have a minor Wis focus, so at 13th level I'd be surprised if his Ranger didn't have 16-18 Wis. A re-roll with a +2 makes the odds of this tactic working slim at best.
And if it does work, the players will probably be pissed that you couldn't hold your ego in check about NPCs getting killed and decided to kill off a PC.
Advice for the GM who needs to deal with the Ranger Archer: Cast Dominate Person on the Ranger, and then force the Ranger to mow down the party. Rangers have weak Will saves, so even if they get a +2 bonus for doing something against their nature, they have a good chance of failing. Make sure the 'bad guy' is true neutral, so Protection from Evil won't thwart this tactic.They also have a minor Wis focus, so at 13th level I'd be surprised if his Ranger didn't have 16-18 Wis. A re-roll with a +2 makes the odds of this tactic working slim at best.
And if it does work, the players will probably be pissed that you couldn't hold your ego in check about NPCs getting killed and decided to kill off a PC.
If the ranger put lots of points into WIS, which wouldn't help to maximize their archery damage, then they deserve to make their Will save. Now a Zen archer can maximize Wisdom and Archery damage.
Dominate won't kill the character who gets dominated. It would be more of a problem for the remaining characters who are about to be filled full of arrows. So dominate wouldn't work for GM ego revenge.
For GM ego revenge, I suggest a room jam packed with first level sorcerers who only know Magic Missile. A CR 13 encounter has 25600 XP, so that is 128 level 1 sorcerers at 200 XP each. If they all cast magic missile at the same target, they would do 128 x (1d4+1) = 448 damage.
Thinking on the original subject, I'm guessing the bard and cleric spend the first round buffing, the ninja moving into position, and the archer making a full attack for lots of damage. So it makes sense that the archer is the target. Either the rest of the group needs to be more of an immediate threat, or the archer needs to spend a round or two self-buffing so they are not the primary target.