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I just picked up the Melee Tactics Toolbox, and I must say, I'm impressed for the most part. Tons of useful goodies to beef up fighters and other martials. There's even a few things for melee casters and, for some reason, a new metamagic feat that allows for easier underwater casting.
I myself am eager to try out some of the new teamwork feats with the Toolbox's new "mountless" cavalier archetype's hound companion.
I wanted to pick your brains on some of the new options and potential combos that could come out of them. I don't have the book with me at the moment, but I will be sure to post some of my own combos here as they come to me.
Post what you like about the book and, more importantly, how you can effectively incorporate the new mechanics into your games.
I'm particularly fond of the two feats (sorry I don't recall their names) that allow you to ignore soft cover with reach weapons, and grant you a +4 dodge bonus against reach attacks. My pole fighters are going to be so much nastier now since they don't have to worry so much about fine positioning or retaliation from larger foes! It stacks well with the Reach Defense feat as well.
They fit perfectly into just about any reach build.
A friend of mine told me there was a feat in that book that let you take a 5-foot step before EVERY attack in your full attack action, though you had to stay adjacent to your targeted foe the whole time.
I can't wait to get it for my rogue! Worrying about having to get into a flanking position will be a thing of the past!
A friend of mine told me there was a feat in that book that let you take a 5-foot step before EVERY attack in your full attack action, though you had to stay adjacent to your targeted foe the whole time.
I can't wait to get it for my rogue! Worrying about having to get into a flanking position will be a thing of the past!
Yeah, I believe you get to move 5 feet between attacks, but they are not 5-foot steps, per se. You may take AoO from each movement. On the plus side, you count as flanking with each attack after the first, I believe. Maybe even each attack.
Holy s#+&. What are the prerequisites?
Ugh... six more days until the PDF version comes out. x.x It all sounds so good!
the feat in question is called circling mongoose and is as follows:
Circling Mongoose (Combat)
You keep your opponent on the defensive as you circle
around threateningly.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack,
base attack bonus +6.
Benefit: When you are adjacent to a foe, as a full-round
action, you can take a full-attack action to make
melee attacks against the foe, moving 5 feet before each
attack. You must move 5 feet before each melee attack you
make, and can’t exceed your maximum speed, exceed
your maximum number of attacks in a round, or attack
any other target until the beginning of your next turn.
You must remain adjacent to the foe, and your movement
provokes attacks of opportunity as normal unless you
succeed at the appropriate Acrobatics checks. If your
first attack against the foe hits, you are considered to
be flanking the foe on your second attack. Subsequent
attacks made as part of the full-attack action continue
to be treated as if you were flanking the foe until one
of your attacks misses, at which point your attacks are
treated normally.
Normal: A character without this feat is limited to only
one 5-foot step during a full attack, taken before, after, or
between attacks.
Huh so I looking up weapons from the MTT: Estoc. 2d4 piercing, 18-20 crit, Weapon Finesse-able, AND can be used one or two handed. Now there's a weapon worth taking exotic weapon proficiency for. Too bad it doesn't actually work with Slashing Grace.
the feat in question is called circling mongoose and is as follows:
Circling Mongoose (Combat)
You keep your opponent on the defensive as you circle
around threateningly.
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack,
base attack bonus +6.
Oh wow, okay not intrigued by it anymore. Thanks for the info though!
You can get a hammer to work with Slashing Grace if you have the right build.
Oh wow, okay not intrigued by it anymore. Thanks for the info though!
The book also has a feat that lets you substitute your Intelligence score for Dexterity prerequisites on combat feats. A number of feats in this book and elsewhere can replaces Dodge or Mobility for the purposes of meeting prerequisites of other feats.
Things are heading in the right direction if you ask me.
You can get a hammer to work with slashing grace if you have the right build.
Weapon Versatility is what immediately comes to mind for me but I don't think it would work as the weapon still fundamentally does not meet the feat prerequisites.
Yes, that's what I was thinking of. You would have to take a sip into Swashbuckler too, to make it work, I think.
Yes, that's what I was thinking of. You would have to take a sip into Swashbuckler too, to make it work, I think.
Why would Swashbuckler be needed? That's usually reserved for getting super Weapon Finesse, but estoc is Weapon Finesse-able with proficiency.
The book also has a feat that lets you substitute your Intelligence score for Dexterity prerequisites on combat feats. A number of feats in this book and elsewhere can replaces Dodge or Mobility for the purposes of meeting prerequisites of other feats.
Things are heading in the right direction if you ask me.
I heard about that feat. I'm not sure how I would use it beyond taking Fast Bombs and two weapon fighting on an alchemist, but it's intriguing.
I agree about things looking up for martials based on what I've heard so far, so I held out hope that Circling Mongoose would be a break from the "needing a ton of awful feats for something kinda cool" paradigm, so I was a bit disheartened when I actually saw it just now. But baby steps I suppose.
There's nothing awful about any of the prerequisite feats other than the fact that they are prerequisites feats.
Hmmm. Considering how Circling Mongoose works, you'd probably want Mobility anyways.
I'm not a huge fan of how Spring Attack and Mobility work out in play, though I do like the idea of an agile fighter in theory.
Anyways, I feel like the new teamwork masterpiece deserves a shoutout in this thread. Essentially, when you learn the masterpiece, pick a teamwork feat you qualify for. You can then perform to gives this teamwork feat to all allies within 60 ft (I think?). Perhaps based on seeing/hearing the Bard/Skald.
A lot of teamwork opportunity there and it is easier to toss out than Tactician. I plan on giving it a whirl with a spell based party to toss around some of the rarely taken spellcaster teamwork feats.
Remember, this thread is supposed to be a brainstorm on how to combine new elements with existing elements. Don't get too carried away with simply showing off the new content. (And please don't post things verbatim from the PDF prior to the book's widespread release; the developers tend to frown upon that.)
I'm particularly fond of the two feats (sorry I don't recall their names) that allow you to ignore soft cover with reach weapons, and grant you a +4 dodge bonus against reach attacks. My pole fighters are going to be so much nastier now since they don't have to worry so much about fine positioning or retaliation from larger foes! It stacks well with the Reach Defense feat as well.
They fit perfectly into just about any reach build.
You're thinking of the "Just Out of Reach" and "Phalanx Formation" feats. The former requires DEX 13, Dodge, and Mobility; whereas the latter only requires a Base Attack Bonus of +1.
Also, Phalanx Formation only allows you to ignore soft cover provided by your allies, and only when wielding a reach weapon that you are proficient in.
Man, Just Out of Reach and Mobility means you will never have to worry about approaching big monsters ever again.
EDIT: The feat I was thinking of earlier was Artful Dodge.
It requires and Intelligence score of 13 and has a special line that says "The Artful Dodge feat acts as the Dodge feat for
the purpose of satisfying prerequisites that require Dodge.
You can use Intelligence, rather than Dexterity, for feats
with a minimum Dexterity prerequisite."
The rest of the feat is actually worse than Dodge, granting a +1 dodge bonus against a SINGLE opponent if you are the ONLY ONE threatening him.
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THE BLUDGEONER
5th-level rogue w/20 Strength + Bludgeoner feat + Cudgeler Style* + Sap Adept + Sap Master + potion of enlarge or cloak of the hedge wizard (transmutation) + +1 impact growing* earth breaker = 14d6+26 nonlethal damage.
Whack-a-mole!
* New option from Melee Tactics Toolbox
Haha. Cool!
Here's one of my ideas:
THE DANCER
Circling Mongoose* + Dodge + Following Step + Improved Sidestep + Juke* + Lightning Stance + Mobility + Sidestep + Spring Attack + Step Up + Wind Stance = Dance around your foes all day with terrific defenses and combat bonuses
Let your enemy's actions grant you flanking bonuses, allow you to position yourself better, and trigger your Wind Stance feat. :D
Phalanx Formation is great, but being a teamwork feat, you almost have to take a level of inquisitor for solo tactics to make it work. But being able to sit in the second rank and still take AoOs is golden.
I suppose a reach-based Hunter could be somewhat successful with it, too. Can only stab over your AC, but if that's the only other melee you should be set. Get a turtle animal companion for bonus points.
Not much has trickled to me yet, but looking at some of the new weapons, I am intrigued by the weighted spear.
This is a double weapon available to just about everyone (since it is a simple weapon) and it does not have any of the problems found with quarterstaves (which can be tricky when dr/cold iron shows up).
Basically, this is a double weapon that will be loved by TWF fighters that can balance out their strength and dex. 2 handed standard action attacks, and they only need the one weapon focus and such. And no need for EWP.
Artful Dodge could perhaps be used with the swashbuckler's and daring champion's ability to substitute intelligence prerequisites for charisma?
Swashbuckler 1/Paladin X, focusing on strength and charisma and picking up two-weapon fighting based on his charisma score would be pretty cool as far as two-weapon fighting goes, especially for the Paladin of Irori archetype which can be somewhat less reliant on dexterity for AC and make use of TWF unarmed strikes and pummeling charge?
btw, the developers have come out and said that the Artful Dodge feat only applies to prerequisites, even though RAW it would let you use Slashing Grace with INT.
I really want an alternate way to get combat reflexes with low dex