Just became 2nd level and I am moving into my Prestige Class set-up. This ties up my feats until after 5th, and as such I haven't given them much thought. It's probably a good idea to think about them, though, so here I am to ask for advice.
First, I should lay out my concept. Serenity is a worshipper of Pharasma and firmly believes that if someone dies because of her actions, then it was their time to go. That doesn't mean she goes out and just murders people but if a fight comes up, she will fight with lethal force. After combat, if the group needs to pump mooks for information, she'll happily heal them up some. As a follower of Pharasma, she absolutely loathes Undead and will do her utmost to destroy them. To this end, she is far more combat oriented than your regular cleric and has become a deadly reaper. She is also far more bubbly than than a keg of beer.
21 year old Half-Elf
Neutral Barbarian 1, Cleric of Pharasma 1
STR-14
DEX-13
CON-16
INT-10
WIS-14
CHA-12
Melee Weapon (Primary): Masterwork Silver Scythe
Ranged Weapon (Secondary): Dagger x4
Armor: Chain Shirt
Traits: Birthmark, Magical Knack
Domains: Death & Healing
Feats: Skill Focus (Stealth), Dodge
Current Progression Plan [with Feats and Ability Boosts]:
1-Barbarian 1 [Skill Focus (Stealth), Dodge]
2-Cleric 1
3-Ranger 1 [Mobility]
4-Ranger 2 [Precise Shot, DEX +1]
5-Cleric 2 [Combat Reflexes]
6-Shadowdancer 1
7-Shadowdancer 2 [Spring Attack/Improved Initiative/Lightning Reflexes?]
8-Shadowdancer 3 [CHA +1]
9-Shadowdancer 4 [Selective Channeling?]
10-Shadowdancer 5
11-Ranger 3 [Endurance, Diehard/Vital Strike/Improved Channel/Extra Channel/Extra Rage?]
12-Cleric 3 [CHA +1]
Am I optimized? HELLS NAW! But that's fine as I just like playing cool/fun characters. Reccomendations for any Feats after qualifying for Shadowdancer or suggestions for alternate feats are welcome. Suggestions for alternate level progressions are okay too, so long as it remains (Barbarian 1, Cleric 3, Ranger 3, Shadowdancer 5).
And remember, this is a CORE character.
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I would really, REALLY recommend just going straight Cleric for this build. Despite whatever idea you may have had of them before, Clerics are very strong as primary melee fighters. The divine list has a ton of really good self-buffing spells.
I would still need a level of a martial class to wield my scythe effectively.
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Honestly, a one level dip into Fighter for armor/weapon proficiencies followed by Cleric is a decent build. Casting in armor, rock that scythe, and you still get decent progression on spells while not having crap will saves.
Hell, you could just go straight Cleric and use your first feat on Weapon Proficiency for the scythe, then pick up something like Power Attack at level 3.
Playing up the "Deadly Reaper" thing is hard to do without a proper death attack, something that non core sources (Ninja, Slayer) handle the best. Failing that, you want loads of damage with melee attacks. Death spells and negative channeling will cover the niche better than the above anyway.
And now, the nitpicking.
- Precise Shot won't do anything for your build. Throwing weapons will deal damage that isn't that great in levels 1-3, and nothing will really make it scale to make it worth an action.
- Selective Channeling won't get you much, considering their related stats are relatively low. In your average encounter clusterfluff, you'll have more than 2-3 targets that you'd want to keep out of your channeling.
- Your build doesn't have much to actually milk Combat Reflexes, so unless enemies literally trip themselves, don't expect much use.
- Rage is a decent buff for melee, but I'm not seeing how it connects to the character fluffwise. Not able to cast, not able to be stealthy or sneaky, not able to make the most of your kit when you might need it.
- And when it comes to the level path....
Suggestions for alternate level progressions are okay too, so long as it remains (Barbarian 1, Cleric 3, Ranger 3, Shadowdancer 5).
You can have any colour as long as it's black.
Overall I can't tell what the build is meant to do. It uses a 2hander, but the strength is low and there's now Power Attack. It's a divine caster, but it multiclasses too much for it to matter much, or for Channeling/Domains to have an impact. A lynchpin ranged attack feat without a means of actually dealing damage when it hits in melee. It's a stealther who dips into low skill point classes and wears medium armor. It has Rage and a load of class abilities and feats that don't function during rage.
Medium armor? Where? Who says I would rage all the time? I only have 7 rounds. And given the choice of either Point Blank Shot or Quick Draw, which would you choose? Combat Reflexes actually wasn't on my radar, but it is required for Shadowdancer. Hell, if I could, I'd be Barbarian 1 / Cleric 1 / Shadowdancer 10!
The build isn't meant to do anything other than be a fun character. I'd hesitate to even call it a build.
Barbarian is for speed and a strength buff, but mostly to keep the memories of her first adventures.
Cleric is for WoCLW usage, small buffs and healing, damage to undead, and a connection to Pharasma and the reaper concept.
Ranger grants undead favored enemy, a boost to abysmal Ref saves, and the hunter-esque theme for a reaper of Pharasma, and is really just a more civilized Barbarian.
Shadowdancer is the beginning and the end. I wanted to play a Shadowdancer that wasn't a rogue. The darkness fits the theme and has a number of interesting abilities.
The group this character will adventure with most often (on the way to Krune, whoever that is) includes an Elven Fighter/Wizard with Arcane Archer on the horizon, a Half-Orc Druid that specializes in fire spells, a Half-Orc Fighter who wields an Orc Double Axe, a Human Rogue wiz an outragous aczent you silly person, a Human Rogue that the church of Cayden Calien sent to the Society to curb his thieving ways, and the cutest and most bubbly Half-Elf reaper you've ever had the misfortune of pissing off.
I see this character as being quite versatile. Is she the best at any one thing? No. She's decent in melee and lowly rounded everywhere else. Works great if someone can't make it to the table. And most of all, she's fun to play.
This thread wasn't meant to be about taking her apart and telling me why it's horrible. I know she's not the best, but that's why she's got a team. This thread was meant to get some Feat suggestions and maybe some input on when to take certain class levels. I'm already thinking of moving Ranger 3 to eighth or ninth to get Endurance and maybe Diehard sooner.
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Don't be frustrated. She has potential. Sounds like she'll be Death Incarnate from the shadows. Sounds like you want to start her out with solid martial ability, take a few levels as a Cleric of Pharasma, then enter the Shadowdancer prestige class. You'd also like her to carry her own weight and wow her allies.
She will never have enough caster levels to be a powerful caster. Her casting will be of the sort that helps her be awesome in other ways. Best not to invest any feats in casting or channeling stuff. Her main way of contributing, besides witty repartee and inspired role playing, will be to reap foes with her scythe. One level of Fighter gets her Scythe proficiency. Another level of Fighter, specifically at 5th level, makes her an awesome reaper of souls. It's best not to jump around between classes too much, and this makes her already triple-classed.
The required Shadowdancer feats are actually part of a fantastically deadly 5-feat sequence, culminating in Whirlwind Attack. If she follows this whole feat line she will be an awesome shadowdancer.
One way might be
Level 1 - Fighter1 feats: Combat reflexes, Combat Expertise, Dodge
Level 2 - Cleric1 of Pharasma
Level 3 - Cleric2 feat: Mobility (almost a Shadowdancer)
Level 4 - Cleric3 (She gets three 2nd level spells!)
Level 5 - Fighter2 feats: Spring Attack & Whirlwind Attack (qualifies for Shadowdancer)
Level 6 - Shadowdancer1
Level 7 - Shadowdancer2 feat: Power Attack?
Level 8 - Shadowdancer3
Level 9 - Shadowdancer4 feat: Lunge!
etc
This will make her into a Reaper from the Shadows. She'll have two ways to reap with deadly effectiveness, starting at 5th level. One way reaps foes at a distance and keeps her safe. The other way reaps many foes at once, but puts her in Harm's Way. Let's hope she's wise enough to always choose the right one to do!
She can use Spring Attack to safely and defensively reap foes at a distance. She can move forward 15' into danger (pretty safe from AoOs due to Mobility), attack a foe with her scythe, then move back 15' to a safe position. This is a great way to keep her safe(r). She can hang out in the back, near the wizard, yet still reap. This move-attack-move option is very rare, and you will get a lot of funny looks at first. This combat style simulates striking from the shadows then retreating back into the shadows.
When the press of foes gets thick, and several enemies are near, she can put herself in harms way, close to foes, and aggressively attack every foe in reach with a Whirlwind Attack! She should expect surviving foes to mostly attack her, so this is dangerous. It's also a great way to inflict massive damage and possibly save her allies in a tight situation.
One good option will be to use her shadow stealth. She can hide in the shadows, move to a position where she threatens several foes, then uncloak and attack every foe within reach. She must time this right, so as to survive the inevitable reprisal from survivors.
At high level she'd really like the Lunge feat, which requires BaB+6. Lunge is great for her, because it extends her reach, allowing her to hit more foes with Whirlwind Attack. Since Whirlwind Attacks lets her attack everything in reach, the more reach she has the more effective it will be.
She's not really using Combat reflexes, as she has no way to generate Attack of Opportunity. Once she makes 5th level, and gets those two great feats, she'll always have good combat options and it won't matter so much. Before 5th level, before those options kick in, she might consider sometimes carrying a reach weapon to go with that scythe, as a way to generate AoOs and put Combat Reflexes to work. For example, a scythe blade on a 7' pole was a pretty common polearm: you could mechanically treat it as a glaive or guisarme yet flavor it as a long scythe. Or stick with the weapon actually named 'scythe', and ignore Combat Reflexes :-)
Suggest Ability Score changes:
If she's going to be an awesome reaper she's going to need a bit more Strength. Dipping Barbarian is a questionable approach, so the above suggestion goes with Fighter instead, for the feats. She'll have access to the 2nd level Core cleric spell Bull's Strength, which provides the same Strength bonus as Barbarian Rage. Spring Attack gives her a very good defensive option, so she hopefully won't need so many HP. She can safely drop CON to 14, or even to 12, and raise STR to 16. This will help a lot with the reaping. She also needs 13 Intelligence to get Combat Expertise. Perhaps lower her CHA a little and raise her INT. This gets her even more skills, so she she will be the Skill Master. Perhaps something like:
STR-14+2 (put 4th & 8th level advance into Strength)
DEX-12
CON-14
INT-13
WIS-14
CHA-10
Regarding Domains, perhaps consider the Repose domain instead of the Healing Domain. This is because she'll never have enough Cleric levels to reach the capstone of the Healing domain, which is Empowered Healing Spells at 6th level cleric. Repose, instead, gives her a touch attack that's good versus undead. Stick with the Death domain for theme :-)
P.s. Here's a radically different approach: instead of three levels of Cleric, she could take three levels of Rogue. This would give her a 2D6 sneak attack. She could use the UMD skill to cast Longstrider from a Wand, increasing her movement speed. This would also make Stealth a class skill, which goes well with Shadowdancer. She could still wield a great scythe and act like Death Incarnate from the Shadows.
P.P.s. She should carry several Potions of Enlarge Person. They're core, and a bargain at only 50 gp each. Getting big increases her reach, which lets her hit even more foes with Whirlwind Attack. Also, the attacks hit a little harder.
Don't be frustrated. She has potential. Sounds like she'll be Death Incarnate from the shadows. Sounds like you want to start her out with solid martial ability, take a few levels as a Cleric of Pharasma, then enter the Shadowdancer prestige class. You'd also like her to carry her own weight and wow her allies.
She will never have enough caster levels to be a powerful caster. Her casting will be of the sort that helps her be awesome in other ways. Best not to invest any feats in casting or channeling stuff. Her main way of contributing, besides witty repartee and inspired role playing, will be to reap foes with her scythe. One level of Fighter gets her Scythe proficiency. Another level of Fighter, specifically at 5th level, makes her an awesome reaper of souls. It's best not to jump around between classes too much, and this makes her already triple-classed.
The required Shadowdancer feats are actually part of a fantastically deadly 5-feat sequence, culminating in Whirlwind Attack. If she follows this whole feat line she will be an awesome shadowdancer.
One way might be
Level 1 - Fighter1 feats: Combat reflexes, Combat Expertise, Dodge
Level 2 - Cleric1 of Pharasma
Level 3 - Cleric2 feat: Mobility (almost a Shadowdancer)
Level 4 - Cleric3 (She gets three 2nd level spells!)
Level 5 - Fighter2 feats: Spring Attack & Whirlwind Attack (qualifies for Shadowdancer)
Level 6 - Shadowdancer1
Level 7 - Shadowdancer2 feat: Power Attack?
Level 8 - Shadowdancer3
Level 9 - Shadowdancer4 feat: Lunge!
etcThis will make her into a Reaper from the Shadows. She'll have two ways to reap...
This is... Amazing! Finally someone understands one of the characters I've asked for help with. Whirlwind Attack looks awesome! I'd be a little sad to see the 40' move go, but that along with Spring Attack and Lunge might make up for it. Only thing is, she's a Half-Elf, so only 2 Feats at 1st level (plus Skill Focus), meaning Whirlwind Attack couldn't come online until 7th. As for abilities, perhaps something like this:
STR-14 +2 (8th & 12th level upgrade)
DEX-14
CON-12
INT-13 (4th level upgrade since I'm skill starved)
WIS-14
CHA-10
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This thread wasn't meant to be about taking her apart and telling me why it's horrible. I know she's not the best, but that's why she's got a team.
Sorry about that. In retrospect, I didn't pay full attention to the post, and shot off something that was less constructive criticism and more just deconstructive of the mechanics, without actually offering much advice in a positive light.
This thread wasn't meant to be about taking her apart and telling me why it's horrible. I know she's not the best, but that's why she's got a team.Sorry about that. In retrospect, I didn't pay full attention to the post, and shot off something that was less constructive criticism and more just deconstructive of the mechanics, without actually offering much advice in a positive light.
Meh it happens. It's also hard to tell tone of voice when all you have is text.
OP: You can still get that 40' movement. Sink a few skill points into UMD, then buy a Wand of Longstrider. The buff lasts 1 hour.
Core spell?
Just to note, the Repose domain that Pharasma has access to has the Gentle Rest power, which is not only one of the best domain powers out there, but it doesn't depend on Cleric level or a save DC. You touch something and it's staggered. Period.
OP: You can still get that 40' movement. Sink a few skill points into UMD, then buy a Wand of Longstrider. The buff lasts 1 hour.Core spell?
Yeah, Longstrider is in the CRB. PFSRD almost threw me off because it cited the ACG, which Greater Longstrider originates from.