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Hi, if a I am mounted can I make a charge attack if the PC is webbed not his mount.
A spider shoots a web on the mounted Character, the character can technically charge because the mount can still move.
Thought it said grappled initially.
That's a tricky question. But the entangled condition specifically says "cannot charge" so by RAW no you can't. You might talk to making an exception with your GM though, but that's a tenuous argument since you're talking about making an exception based on a technicality or RAI interpretation (ie if my mount can charge in my place, can I make a charge attack?)
But my move ment is not impeded
But my move ment is not impeded
Yes it is, just because your mount isn't impeded doesn't mean you aren't, and you're the one making the attack - not your mount. That said, your GM might allow you to make a charge attack anyways with penalties. But that's a houserule and not PFS legal.
We even have a FAQ that clarifies that in a mounted charge, both the mount and the person are considered charging.
At the very least, I would say you would gain no benefit from charging. Such as double lance damage, or the +2 to attack.
Hmmn, I'm not entirely convinced. Under the mounted combat rules:
Your mount acts on your initiative count as you direct it. You move at its speed, but the mount uses its action to move.When you're mounted you use the horse's speed, not your own. Thus, if the rider's movement is impeded but the mount's is not, it has no effect on your speed while mounted. Hence, your movement isn't actually impeded and thus it could be argued that you can still charge.
A related question might be:If you have more than one movement speed, say a land speed and a fly speed, if one of those two speeds is impeded, can you still charge with the other unimpeded speed?
To me, logic would indicate that you only consider the actively used mode of movement when determining whether you're impeded or not for things like charging.
1) Rules say you cannot charge when your movement is inhibited.
2) The Entangled condition inhibits your movement.3) FAQ says that both you and your mount charge when making a mounted charge.
Therefor, since you cannot charge you cannot make a mounted charge while entangled. The fact that you are not using your own movement is irrelevant to what the rules say.
1) Rules say you cannot "move" when sleeping.
2) The Sleep spell puts you to sleep.
3) Rules say that you use your mount's speed when mounted.
That is no way means your mount can't move while you are sleeping on top of it.
If YOU are entangled but your MOUNT is not, I would rule that you can charge.
The rules also state that if you are entangled, you move at half speed. Moving at half speed is the reason you cannot charge or run. But because you are mounted, you can move at full speed, charge and run.
Of course, YMMV.
1) Rules say you cannot "move" when sleeping.
2) The Sleep spell puts you to sleep.
3) Rules say that you use your mount's speed when mounted.That is no way means your mount can't move while you are sleeping on top of it.
You can't direct your mount while you are sleeping, so no you still can't move while asleep. If anything, your movement is directed by the GM since you are asleep and your mount is unintelligent. Also there is a % chance you simply fall off your mount if unconscious anyways.
The rules also state that if you are entangled, you move at half speed. Moving at half speed is the reason you cannot charge or run. But because you are mounted, you can move at full speed, charge and run.
The entangled condition very specifically states you cannot charge while entangled. Even if your mount isn't impeded, that means you are.
If you want to allow charging anyways with penalties, because it makes some sense that you should at least be able to try - that's fine. But it isn't RAW.
I didn't say anything about directing the mount.
The entangled condition very specifically states you cannot charge while entangled. Even if your mount isn't impeded, that means you are.
It also very clearly states that you move at half speed and cannot run, in the very same exact sentence that limits charging.
Why are you willing to limit one part of the sentence but not the other two? Or are you also saying that you can't move at full speed or run?
Your logic fallacy is Texas Sharpshooter
I didn't say anything about directing the mount.
But you did talk about "being able to move while asleep" which you pretty clearly cannot do just because you're riding a mount.
It also very clearly states that you move at half speed and cannot run, in the very same exact sentence that limits charging.
Why are you willing to limit one part of the sentence but not the other two? Or are you also saying that you can't move at full speed or run?
Your logic fallacy is Texas Sharpshooter
Uh, what? The only one here doing that is you. Entangled specifically says you cannot move more than half your speed, you cannot run, and you cannot charge. It doesn't say 'if you could move with an alternate method THEN you can charge' you're just making a personal inference. I'm merely looking at the RAW here. In order to imply that mounted combat allows you to ignore penalties for being Entangled, you would at the least have to make the argument that the rules intended for that to be the case ie RAI, or provide a compelling reason why the rule should be ignored, which you have not demonstrated in either case.
And, as stated -
When mounted you are not doing a move or run, but you are doing a charge.
Even if the mount is moving, the mounted combat rules specifically state that when your mount charges, you are charging with your mount. This was even addressed by FAQ because some people got the idea that if your mount charges (but you only get the benefit of the charge without actually having to do a charge action yourself) then you could combine mounted combat charging and Vital Strike - which no, you can't.
Given that Entangled is designed to do a specific thing (apply a debuff that prevents certain actions) any GM has plenty of justification to say you can't game the rules due to weird language dependencies.
While I understand that you are using RAW for Entangled, I believe you are limiting yourself to that and not looking at the big picture.
Someone flying in the air via the Fly spell would not be slowed due to Entangle unless they are anchored to the ground in some way. There is no mention of this in the Entangle rules. There is no specific mention that it overrides that part of the Entangle condition. But logically, as there is nothing actually slowing down the flying person's speed, there is no reason why they cannot charge.
Entangle, at least as caused by the web in the OP's case, slows a person via physical restraint. If that physical restraint is somehow avoided, as I claim being on a free moving mount does, then the movement penalties of the entangled condition do not apply.
What is actually different in this case? The individual's movement rate (while mounted) is not affected. Could that individual move the mount's distance and attack? Of course it can. It could not do that if the entangle condition was fully in effect. Clearly it is not.
The penalties to attack would still apply. It is not as if there is "no effect" because he is mounted. It just works out that the movement penalties don't matter.
As with all conditions, there is usually a way to mitigate their effects.
Could that individual move the mount's distance and attack? Of course it can. It could not do that if the entangle condition was fully in effect. Clearly it is not.
You still can move and attack on the mount. You just can't charge. Those are the rules that are being cited.
The same sentence that says you can't charge says that your movement is halved and that you can't run.
Specifically, are you saying the mount's movement is halved and that it cannot run?
Someone flying in the air via the Fly spell would not be slowed due to Entangle unless they are anchored to the ground in some way. There is no mention of this in the Entangle rules. There is no specific mention that it overrides that part of the Entangle condition.
Fly is a magical affect, any entangled flying creature with a normal fly speed would be slowed down. Also, Fly spell specifically states there is a difference between being able to 'run' and 'charge' when it notes you cannot run despite being able to charge.
Entangle, at least as caused by the web in the OP's case, slows a person via physical restraint. If that physical restraint is somehow avoided, as I claim being on a free moving mount does, then the movement penalties of the entangled condition do not apply.
This is merely a semantic argument. I have argued that players should be able to charge through allies (because regular movement can go through allies without penalty) but the rules specifically say you can't.
As with all conditions, there is usually a way to mitigate their effects.
The rules provide a way to mitigate the effect. Spend a standard action to remove the entangled condition.
Trying to argue that you can ignore a specific, cherry picked portion of the effect through semantic hoop jumping is obviously not how the rules were intended (let alone how they were written). It's not like Mounted Combat was written after the CRB or anything.
The same sentence that says you can't charge says that your movement is halved and that you can't run.
This is not a case of "if you can find some other way to run and your movement isn't halved, THEN you can charge" There are many factors OTHER than being able to make full movement to charge. (In fact, you can charge with half your movement if you can only take a standard action, which shows you don't need to move full speed to charge)
So, just to be clear, you are saying that two parts of the sentence:
"An entangled creature moves at half speed, cannot run or charge, and takes a –2 penalty on all attack rolls and a –4 penalty to Dexterity."
that are based on movement can be ignored if mounted, but not the other?
Why is it OK to ignore two of them, but not the third?
There is nothing semantic about my argument. It is context. Not every combination of skills, abilities, and combat options will be presented in the book. One must put them all into context and see how they will work.
A person with no legs has movement that is impeded and cannot charge. That same person can charge when on a mount.
But there are no real specific rules for that, so...
A person wounded by caltrops has their movement impeded for 24 hours and cannot charge. If that person then gets on a horse, that person can charge.
If you are entangled and have Freedom of Movement, you are able to charge. You are still entangled though. Yet, again, you can charge. This is because something else changes what you can do. In this case it is magic. In the OP's case, it is because he is mounted.
You are correct that it does not specifically call out that being mounted allows you to move or charge while entangled. It also does not call out the being mounted allows you to move when you are Blinded, Disabled, Exhausted, Fatigued, or Nauseated.
Would you rule that all of the above are unable to Move > Move on a mount just because they do not say you can? If so, we absolutely disagree on how the fundamentals of the game work, especially while mounted.
Context is king, not semantics.
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Yes, you can charge, the mount is not entangled.
Any argument to the contrary is ignoring the fact that the rules cannot cover every conceivable permutation and that common sense (rules common sense, not real world common sense) must prevail.
Entangle prevents the creature entangled from moving normally. In the case of the fly spell or a mounted on a creature not entangled the movement should not be impacted. This is because the rule regarding entangled assumes you are providing your own motive power.
It is not written to cover cases where you are mounted.
Put another way: Mount charges and you are along for the ride. Since the rules state that both the mount and the rider are charging when the mount charges then you must also be charging.
Note: if you are entangled AND anchored your mount will charge, you will fall off and land on your rump.