Banishment and outsider born on material plane

[Framane]

In a game we play we had to fight an elder lightning elemental that was born from the Eye of Abendago (that giant permanent storms) that nearly tpk us. When we talked about it with some of our fellow player they asked us why we didn't simply dismiss/banish it.

I told them that this wouldn't work as this particular elemental was already on its home plane, but they told me that it didn't matter and it would still be sent to the Plane of Air. Is that right?

Spoiler:

Dismissal:
This spell forces an extraplanar creature back to its proper plane if it fails a Will save. If the spell is successful, the creature is instantly whisked away, but there is a 20% chance of actually sending the subject to a plane other than its own.

Banishment:
A banishment spell is a more powerful version of the dismissal spell. It enables you to force extraplanar creatures out of your home plane. As many as 2 Hit Dice of creatures per caster level can be banished.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Elementals like all outsiders are are made from the essence of there respective planes. So yes banishment should work on an elemental no matter where it was created unless your on the corresponding elemental plane. Being made from the essence of another plane of existent should exclude the possibility of it being native to anywhere else. Just like having the evil subtype means holy weapons hurt regardless of your actual alignment,

[MeanMutton]

It's well within the GM's discretion to have a NPC have a different subtype. If this particular creature is of the "native" subtype, dismissal / banishment wouldn't work.

[DM_Blake]

MeanMutton wrote:

It's well within the GM's discretion to have a NPC have a different subtype. If this particular creature is of the "native" subtype, dismissal / banishment wouldn't work.

This.

To know if Dismissal/Banishment would have worked, you would have to know if the elemental were Native or not. If, as stated, the elemental was born here (began its existence on this plane), then it's very likely it should and would be Native.

[claudekennilol]

Wouldn't it be an outsider with the native subtype?

[Claxon]

If it was born on the material plane, it should be an outsider with the native subtype.

Making banishment or dismissal ineffective.

[Lord Vukodlak]

Claxon wrote:

If it was born on the material plane, it should be an outsider with the native subtype.

Making banishment or dismissal ineffective.

A native outsider has to eat sleep and breathe which doesn't make sense for an elemental. Native is a subtype for the mortal descendants of outsiders.

[Scavion]

Lord Vukodlak wrote:

Claxon wrote:

If it was born on the material plane, it should be an outsider with the native subtype.

Making banishment or dismissal ineffective.

A native outsider has to eat sleep and breathe which doesn't make sense for an elemental. Native is a subtype for the mortal descendants of outsiders.

This.

[Jeff Merola]

Yeah, it wouldn't be native, but if it was "born" on the Material plane, it shouldn't be (extraplanar) while there. The extraplanar subtype just means the creature isn't on its home plane right now. A PC from Golarion that planeshifts to a non-transitive plane gains the extraplanar subtype, for instance.

Extraplanar subtype wrote:

Extraplanar Subtype: This subtype is applied to any creature when it is on a plane other than its native plane. A creature that travels the planes can gain or lose this subtype as it goes from plane to plane. Monster entries assume that encounters with creatures take place on the Material Plane, and every creature whose native plane is not the Material Plane has the extraplanar subtype (but would not have it when on its home plane). Every extraplanar creature in this book has a home plane mentioned in its description. Creatures not labeled as extraplanar are natives of the Material Plane, and they gain the extraplanar subtype if they leave the Material Plane. No creature has the extraplanar subtype when it is on a transitive plane, such as the Astral Plane, the Ethereal Plane, or the Plane of Shadow.

[Framane]

Thanks Jeff, I think that was the thing I needed to clear that issue :-)
So that particular elemental would have been an outsider (air, elemental) and it not being an extraplanar would have rendered it immune to bannishment and dismissal.

Thanks guy!

[LazarX]

Framane wrote:

In a game we play we had to fight an elder lightning elemental that was born from the Eye of Abendago (that giant permanent storms) that nearly tpk us. When we talked about it with some of our fellow player they asked us why we didn't simply dismiss/banish it.

By definition, such a creature is not an outsider. It is however extremely weird.