Crossblooded Sorcerer with draconic and undead bloodlines.


Advice


Hey guys my friend is wanting to run a sorcerer that turns into a dragon discipal at the 5th level. He is also playing on being a half orc. What are your thoughts on a build for this. We are both new to pathfinder. Thanks everyone.


Suboptimal. Dragon Disciple's flashy powers and cool theme distract from the fact that it's not a very powerful class. You can cast, but not very well. You can fight, but not very well.

I mean don't get me wrong, you don't have to be the biggest and the strongest to have fun. It's just important to know, going into it, that you aren't going to be super-powered.

Still interested? Groovy. You'll likely want a level of something fighty (fighter, ranger, etc.) so you can be proficient in martial weapons. Wear a haramaki, eventually getting one out of adamantine for the DR. Mithral buckler is an option if you aren't using a two-handed weapon, but you probably will be.

Urban Barbarian MIGHT be available, its a question of whether or not you can cast during controlled rage (ask your GM). Focus on buff and weapon spells that work well with you swinging your sword (or whatever) at the enemy.


You can't cast with Urban Barbarian. It spells out what changes from regular rage to controlled rage and casting isn't among the changes.

Why's he want Undead, too? That just seems like a... really weird combination. And for the most part it's hard to effectively Crossblood with a Disciple if you want the powers, because Disciple heavily encourages you to use the Draconic bloodline powers (as it gives bonuses to all but the capstone).


He want to run more of a necromancer but also likes the dragon thing. What is a good build for a necromancer?


kestral287 wrote:
You can't cast with Urban Barbarian. It spells out what changes from regular rage to controlled rage and casting isn't among the changes.

It's not that clear. Expect table variation.

I mean, it doesn't spell out "you CAN'T cast" in Core Barbarian, and it doesn't spell out "you can cast" in Urban Barbarian, so...yeah.


A good build for a necromancer doesn't include Dragon Disciple. It also doesn't focus towards the same things as a blasty Draconic Bloodline build.

If he just wants draconic stuff like breath and wings then I'd recommend going straight Sorcerer.


Moment of Clarity rage power lets you cast while raging.


boring7 wrote:
kestral287 wrote:
You can't cast with Urban Barbarian. It spells out what changes from regular rage to controlled rage and casting isn't among the changes.

It's not that clear. Expect table variation.

I mean, it doesn't spell out "you CAN'T cast" in Core Barbarian, and it doesn't spell out "you can cast" in Urban Barbarian, so...yeah.

It's a well accepted that the line "any ability that requires patience or concentration" is what disallows casting during a rage. Since Controlled Rage does not overturn that statement...


Okay he is wanting to drop the dragon part of it and go more into the necromancer build. What are good options for that type of build? Oracle? Cleric? Or sorcerer? Thanks guys!


The best is probably Oracle, specifically a Juju oracle but Bones can work pretty well too. Cleric's not a bad choice either, a bit boring but it gets the job done without much fuss. If you don't mind being evil and more martial focused, Anti-paladins make decent necromancers as well. The primary things you are looking for are the Animate Dead and Desecrate spells, which makes divine spellcasters slightly more suited to being dedicated necromancers. Keep in mind that raising dead is not a cheap business, and you will often be strapped not only for gold, but corpses as well.


Cleric.


Haven't tried an oracle necromancer but definitely cleric over sorcerer.


Well, to expand; Cleric is a better lord of undead and has a wealth of "bad touch" spells. Wizard has a few wizard-only tricks (things like Clone, Magic Jar) and more nastybad ray attacks. Most of a cleric's attack necromancy still requires getting into touch range.

Animating corpses is a complicated issue, since your best bet is either mindless stuff which rapidly becomes useless as anything but a "caddy" and higher-level undead, the kind with class levels and intelligence, tend to be harder to control and work a lot like cohorts (weak). As well, your toolbox is only what the GM allows.

You COULD create an infinite-loop horde of contagious undead (vampires) who serve you, but the GM probably won't let you do it. You CAN have a vampire slave and a cohort both working for you, but the GM will probably kill one of them off. You CAN create a zombie purple worm that digs a tunnel network for you, but only if the GM lets you find, fight, and capture intact the corpse of a purple worm.

To say nothing of the question of necromantic pollution and zombie oxes.

I think Oracle can do "bad touch" necromancer, but spell selection will be tough. You'll be building a fighty oracle type with a few key hurt spells, and only a few of them will actually be necromancy. And since a lot of them have saves and spell resistance, you'll be cursing die rolls.


Melee necromancers are better of cleric than sorcerer. Turn undead, higher bab, bigger hit die an no arcane spell failure are all things you want. Battle cleric with undead domain and the channel smite feat lets you change the leftover channels you haven't used on command undead to either smite for damage or channel negative for party healing. In my xp channeling for damage is a waste of your action. Then use the second domain for damage: war, ferocity, demon, strength or destruction come to mind.


There are 3 basic kinds of necromancer. The answer depends upon which kind he wants to be.

Undead General - Probably oracle with cleric a very close second. Though the wizards and sorcs have a few neat spells for this that some people prefer. This is fairly powerful, but a lot of work and organization to keep track of all you dead minions. I usually would not recommend this one if you are not an experienced, knowledgeable, and organized player.

Casting hurt spells from a safe distance - Examples include Enervation and Fear. Wizard or Sorc can both do very well at this. While it doesn't usually win fights all by itself, this is a fairly easy style to put a lot of serious debuffs on the opposition. Then let your allies beat them to a pulp.

Beating up on things in melee and using touch range hurt spells - Cleric with Oracle second choice. Some people really like this because some of the touch range spells are the nastiest available. Spells like Contagion and Bestow Curse are awful/awesome to have. Combined with negative channeling and variant channeling, you can make things much easier to bash with your morning star.
Probably the easiest of the 3 to run. If you are not sure which/if spell to use, you can always swing a weapon.

Decide which one you want then look through the online guides. There is a guide for almost anything you could want to build.


I like the wizard necromancer, and Think it is worth a look. Ravindork have a quite amazing necro juju oracle on his build list somthing i dont remember her name.
Also the shaman looks like it could make a amazing and versatile necromancer.


The dragon disciple thing made me think it had to be capable of melee, if not then a focust build is way better (battle necromancers are mad as hell). For a battlecleric it is really enjoyable to be a frontliner and have your own meatshield and flanking buddy so it is stil a valid option. If you don't have to go in melee then having to have at least 15 points on strength is a waste and I would go wizard, cleric or if allowed juju oracle and move the points in strength to you caster or charisma score.

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