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Hi All,
I'm looking from some pointers on my Battle Herald build, and to check to make sure everything here is PFS legal.
The build is a classic Human Cavalier 4/Bard (Arcane Duellist) 1/Battle Herald x
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 13
Weapon of choice will probably be a longspear for use with Banner of the Ancient Kings, otherwise, Lance.
Question: With the Battle Herald's Banner ability, the AGP writes
Banner (Ex): At 5th level, a battle herald may fly a battle standard that inspires her allies. This ability is identical to the cavalier's banner ability, and cavalier levels stack with battle herald levels to determine the bonuses provided by the banner.
I am assuming that the cavalier is required to have the Banner ability for cavalier & battle herald levels to stack. If someone could correct me if this is not the case.
Feats: Mounted Combat, Power Attack (human bonus), Shake it Off (bonus, teamwork)
Traits: Helpful, Gregarious
Skills: Diplomacy 1, Handle Animal 1, Perception 1, Profession (soldier) 1, Ride 1
Order of the Dragon
Skills: Diplomacy 2, Handle Animal 2, Intimidate 1, Perception 1, Perform (oratory) 1, Profession (soldier) 1, Ride 2
Feats: Lingering Performance, Arcane Strike (bonus) Lingering Performance allows me to combine inspire courage with inspiring command to a certain extent.
Skills: Diplomacy 3, Handle Animal 3, Intimidate 3, Perception 1, Perform (oratory) 2, Profession (soldier) 2, Ride 3
Spells: 0 - light, mending, prestidigitation, spark. 1 - feather fall, ventriloquism feather fall has no somatic components and will improve in utility once this character is griffon mounted, ventriloquism is there because I couldn't find a more useful bard spell with no somatic components.
The bard level has to come at level three so I can take both lingering performance & monstrous mount by 5th level.
Ability Bonus: +1 Charisma to 14
Skills: Diplomacy 4, Handle Animal 4, Intimidate 4, Perception 1, Perform (oratory) 3, Profession (soldier) 2, Ride 4
Feats: Monstrous Mount (Griffon), Skill Focus: Handle Animal (PFS bonus feat, no expert trainer)
Skills: Diplomacy 5, Handle Animal 4, Intimidate 5, Perception 1, Perform (oratory) 5, Profession (soldier) 2, Ride 5
All requirements have been met for Battle Herald, and I qualify for horse master at 6th (although I'll have to wait till 7th to take the feat).
Command: Shake It Off I can start combats with inspire courage, and drop it for shake it off when needed and inspire courage lingers
Now that the skill prerequisites have been met, I will started improving perception and UMD & stop advancing intimidate, & perform (oratory).
Feat: Horse Master
Ability Bonus: Strength or Charisma, currenlt undecided.
Command: None Shall Fall, I though this was pretty rubbish at first, but the extra utility is good and I'm primarily after ability that aren't redundant with inspire courage
Feat: Outflank (2nd teamwork feat required for Coordinated Charge).
Command: Teamwork
Feats: Practiced Tactician, Coordinated Charge (teamwork, bonus), coordinated charge is a powerful teamwork feat, and practiced tactician allows me to at least use it twice a day.
My build goes to level 20, which is mostly beyond the scope of PFS, but I'll include feats & commands below for completeness.
Level 12 (C4/AD1/BH7): Command Sound the charge. +3 inspiring command makes this better than inspire courage most of the time.
Level 13 (C4/AD1/BH8): Feat Flagbearer
Level 14 (C4/AD1/BH9): Command Battle Magic
Level 15 (C4/AD1/BH10): Feat Iron Will
Level 16 (C5/AD1/BH10): ...
Level 17 (C6/AD1/BH10): Feats Improved Iron Will, Indomitable Mount (bonus combat feat)
Level 18 (C7/AD1/BH10): yawn...
Level 19 (C8/AD1/BH10): Feat Practiced Tactician
Level 20 (C9/AD1/BH10): Greater Tactician class feature does make for a pretty cool capstone.
I could really use some help with what's best to do with levels 16-20 after leaving battle herald from a theorycraft perspective, but I am unlikely to play this character to that point.
As an aside, it would be nice if improved leadership did something in PFS, even if it was a bonus to knowledge: nobility checks or something equally trash, but that isn't the reason I'm in the class so the character isn't really missing out there.
Any advice or input would be greatly appreciated.
No Flagbearer feat?
Hm. Well, if you were going to be using a one handed weapon anyway then taking Flagbearer at first level instead of Power Attack probably wouldn't affect your DPR much. You wouldn't take the negative to hit from Power Attacking and would get a plus to hit AND damage from Flagbearer. That would be my vote. Plus your party will love you for all the buffs you will be providing.
Don't forget that PFS Bards replace Scribe Scroll for Extra Performance.
If you don't want to lose on BAB, you can instead make a Standard Bearer Cavalier 1/Exemplar Brawler 3/Something 1/Battle Herald X
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@Rodina: I believe you need a free to use the flagbearer feat, which would restrict reach weapon use to the lance while mounted. I could certainly see that being more effective than mounted combat & power attack at 1st.
@Secret wizard: This is a pretty solid idea which I didn't consider as I got hung up on trying to work in the full animal companion. I'll have another look at it as you can take the Cavalier level 4th to have outflank as the teamwork feat you get to pass around.
Are there any effective reach weapons that can be used in one hand?
I've always preferred Strategist Cavalier / Exemplar Brawler
One of the odd things about Battle Herald is that it doesn't increase caster level while requiring an ability that comes natively from a caster class.
The other option is a Sensei Monk, but I REALLY like the Exemplar because at lv5 it gains Tactician and its levels stack with your Cavalier levels for Tactician, meaning that all your class levels will count towards Tactician.
I'd suggest either:
Cavalier 1 / Exemplar 5 / Battle Herald
or
Cavalier 2 / Exemplar 3 / Battle Herald
The first focuses on Tactician and making the most of that ability.
The second nets you the 2nd level Order ability and gets you into Battle Herald earlier, but you effectively lose 3 levels' worth of Tactician time in the process.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 32
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@ chbgraphicarts: Questions about the exemplar/cavalier mix to reach battle herald:
-Is it worthwhile to use the brawler's martial flexibility to get teamwork feats, in order to grant those via tactician? Or are you better off using them for other feats?
-The thing I got tripped up by is how/whether to incorporate brawler's flurry into a BH build. It just seems a little awkward to either 1) focus on close weapons on a class that probably eventually wants a longspear to put a banner of the ancient kings on--then again, I guess you have a free hand to hold your banner/flagbearer flag/BotAK while you brawler's flurry a single weapon in your other hand--or 2) ignore it completely in favor of a spear or lance.
@ chbgraphicarts: Questions about the exemplar/cavalier mix to reach battle herald:
-Is it worthwhile to use the brawler's martial flexibility to get teamwork feats, in order to grant those via tactician? Or are you better off using them for other feats?
-The thing I got tripped up by is how/whether to incorporate brawler's flurry into a BH build. It just seems a little awkward to either 1) focus on close weapons on a class that probably eventually wants a longspear to put a banner of the ancient kings on--then again, I guess you have a free hand to hold your banner/flagbearer flag/BotAK while you brawler's flurry a single weapon in your other hand--or 2) ignore it completely in favor of a spear or lance.
It sorta depends on both your mindset/roll, and on the situation:
If you're playing a Battle Herald in order to be a Alexander-style character that acts mainly as support to your party and calls out instructions from the back line (usually protecting the squishy casters), then using Flexibility 24/7 to grant Teamwork feats is great.
If you're more a front-line commander calling out tactics while in the midst of battle (i.e. Leonidas from 300), then you'd switch back and forth between using the Flexibility for your own buffing and granting Teamwork Feats to your allies.
It also depends on how unified a force your group is. If actual tactics and teamwork are employed, Teamwork Feats are phenomenal. If everyone is a band of murder-hobo Celts who fight in a giant, mismanaged melee, then buffing yourself is best.
Basically, here's how I'd say it:
If you know your group is going to work together and assist one another, go for Cav 1 / Exemp 5 / Herald X.
If you know your group is generally going to do their own things without interacting with one another during the whole fight, then Cav 2 / Exemp 3 / Herald X is best, since you're not going to need to worry about granting them Teamwork Feats on the fly anyway.
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As for the Flurry thing:
Again, it depends on how you go.
If you only take up to lv3, then most you're really going to get out of Brawler's Flurry is TWF, so honestly I wouldn't worry about it.
If you take it up to 5, then while you STILL only get up to TWF, you do get 1d6 damage on your Close weapons. At that point, it's kinda up to you - I really like the idea of a dual-shield marshal myself, since you're just getting more AC (from at least one shield), and if you take Shield Master, you're attacking with no penalties to TWF. Or you could, again, just ignore it entirely and not worry about it too much.
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See, the reason why using even ONE Shield is great with this is this part right here:
She does not need to use two different weapons to use this ability.
So you can make all your attacks with your hand holding a Heavy Shield, and still make as many attacks as under Two-Weapon Fighting. Your other hand can still hold a longspear upon which a Banner of the Champion is placed.
And, again, once you hit Close Weapon Mastery, if you advance to level 5, your Shield will automatically be dealing 1d6 Damage anyway, regardless of if you use it with your Brawler's Flurry. At that point, it's up to you how you deal your damage - just think of it as icing on the cake.
If you ever pick up a Monk's Robe, you'll gain a +2 Dodge Bonus to AC (from counting as a Monk of 5 levels higher, i.e. a lv10 Brawler), and your Shield damage will increase to d8.
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Incorrect! Flagbearer requires that you hold the flag in one hand, not that you have a free hand. Big difference. The wording is to prevent this, where you can ignore the flag and not hold it. You are free to hold your flag in two hands.
This is awesome! I will try to adjust the build to fit this in at 1st. The tough part is getting charisma to a starting value of 15. I could go for a starting array of Str 17, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 9, Charisma 15. +1 Str at 4th, +1 Wis at 8th.
Maintaining the skill requirements for both Battle Herald and Monstrous Mount/ Horse Master makes an Int 10 ideal. Also, is Dex 12 enough to take advantage of Combat Reflexes?
@chbgraphicarts: This build looks awesome, but are the advantages you list worth the loss of a full animal companion? Would something like Exemplar 3/Cavalier 4/Battle Herald x be worthwhile, or is entry into the PrC too late at this point?
Thanks for the input so far everyone :D
@chbgraphicarts: This build looks awesome, but are the advantages you list worth the loss of a full animal companion? Would something like Exemplar 3/Cavalier 4/Battle Herald x be worthwhile, or is entry into the PrC too late at this point?
Thanks for the input so far everyone :D
Lots of classes survive fine without having a mount.
In this case, you're focusing much more on making the Cavalier into a support/tactical character. That's why I said I like Strategist Cavalier better for this build - sacrificing Expert Trainer for more uses of Tactician in the long run serves you better (it's already a fairly weak-to-useless ability anyway, what with Downtime existing).
Anyway, just remember that Boon Companion is a very real option.
I'd suggest either Cav1/Exemp5/Herald6 or Cav2/Exemp3/Herald7, and take Boon Companion so your Mount is either a level 5 or level 6 Companion, AND you're getting as much out of the Battle Herald as possible.
6 Levels of Battle Herald give you a Bonus Teamwork Feat, which can be used with Tactician; 7 levels give you Demanding Challenge, along with your Inspiring Command being upped to 3.
The only real reason I'd see taking Cav4/Exemp3/Herald5 is that your total Cavalier Levels for Banner would be 9 - except THAT is basically useless unless you're in a PFS scenario that goes up to 13, because your Banner bonuses don't increase until Cav10.
I could see taking STRATEGIST4/Exemp3/Herald5 so that you gain Drill Instructor - however, even that seems like you're losing out significantly on the things Battle Herald would give you, honestly.
So, yeah, stick with the level 6 or level 7 entry; after that, you're just not as awesome as you could be.
Mind you, all this goes out the window if you're going up to 20; at that point, take any combo of Cav5/Exemp5/Herald10 and go flippin' nuts!
Also remember that your Mount counts as one of your Allies, so the more Teamwork Feats you have access to early on, and more uses of Tactician to impart them to your allies, the better, since you're also making your Mount more useful.
It seems counter-intuitive, but having fewer Cavalier Levels pays out more in the end.
Cbgraphicarts- Would you mind posting a level-by-level build for this? I think I'd really like to use this for my next PFS character.
Also, which Teamwork feats are the best to grant a general-mix PFS party?