Damiel makes me sad


Rules Questions and Gameplay Discussion


My friend is new to the game and is playing Damiel. The character is amazing. He casts better than some CASTERS do, and every time he runs into something he can't quite handle, he potions it successful. He is running through the game with great success.

....... Frankly, I am furious at him.

I have played in official card guild games for a couple months now and this newb (who is totally still my best friend... for now) is so much better than me thanks to Damiel.

So I implore you, my Pathfinder community friends, point me in the direction of a character to at least keep up with this monstrous beast spawned from the pit of Asmodeus. I have access to all of the S&S characters, and the Bard and Cleric class decks.
Save me from the bitterness I feel growing in my heart for Pathfinder.
*grumble*stupidalchemist*grumble

Sovereign Court

A few points

1) I'd hardly say he casts better. If the spell doesn't have the Attack trait, he's about on par with the majority of casters, not much better. If it does have the trait, you may as well be Valeros casting the spell.

2) He is definitely a character that most will struggle to "keep up with". Personally, I love Oloch. I've seen him "keep up" with Damiel on many occasions.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber

My girlfriend and I are playing S&S; she decided to play Damiel. After looking through the remaining characters, I decided that Jirelle would be the best compliment. After reading through some other threads, Damiel and Jirelle seem to be a common pairing.

Why did I pick Jirelle? She has a pretty good Survival, which is among the most important skills in S&S. She uses finesse melee weapons and doesn't cast spells, so there won't be a lot of boon competition going on. (That lack of competition goes for items and allies as well). Jirelle also has a decent Charisma, which is Damiel's weak point. Pirate Queen Jirelle can also pick up the Diplomacy skill, something that Damiel needs to fake with a Potion of Glibness.

Now that I am re-reading your post, I should ask: are you asking what character pairs up best with Damiel, or are you looking for a character as powerful/versatile as Damiel? Because I realize those are two different questions...


Personally, I find it hard to take when someone else not as passionate as I am at something and that person is doing better than me when they just started, while I've poured many hours on it. So, I totally get where you are coming from. Just not the case for PACG.

My suggestion I would give you first and foremost is to not take it as he is better at the game than you are. This is a purely cooperative game. No one should try to be better at the game than anybody, and instead try to beat the game together as equals.

Now to go deeper into the issue, I feel like its more of the fact that Damiel is good at a lot of things and has many tools to help him achieve what he wants. The character is on the higher end of the balance scale. Not everyone is as well equipped as Damiel. I personally play him more as a support to my other party members than I'll-do-everything-myself-you-watch-me.

If you are looking for a similar character that is borderline OP, I would have to say RotR Lini. I have not tried her on S&S but I imagine with the Survival skill, she would still fair rather well. Another character who I find does really well with little to no help is Merisiel.

Personally I prefer parties where characters actually interact with each other through their powers and help each other, rather than everyone is a soloist and if you fail as a solo you are worse than dirt. Helping each other in different ways is one thing I really enjoy about the game. Really feels like I'm playing a co-op game, rather than a basic hack & slash most-kills-wins.

If you like a little competition with your friend, I don't know of any homebrew variants I can think of to make the game a bit competitive within party members. there might be some in the homebrew section somewhere. I only view the game as purely cooperative and playing an overpowered character has nothing to do with how experienced the player is about the game. If you are that much jealous of Damiel, play two Damiels. Problem solved. :)


When I play Damiel, he mostly hangs around with my wife's Ranzak. I play Speed and Potion of Heroism, and Ranzak burns through locations in a couple of turns (especially now we've got him feated up to increase his boon acquisition, and his chance of an extra free explore).


I would echo the statement of others in this thread; it’s not a competitive game. You don’t have to keep up with Damiel.
That being said, Damiel is certainly a powerhouse. He is incredibly versatile in the way you bring this deck, but manages to be amazingly effective an efficient in whatever role you chose for him.

However, S&S has a number of other strong characters. Alahazra has unprecedented scouting ability, something Damiel noticeably lacks. Alahazra is more of a support character, but I find she brings more to the party as a whole than Damiel. In addition, she complements Damiel amazingly well. Her scouting allows damiel to properly prepare for each challenge with his tot flasks, and her high charisma covers his most notable stat deficiency.

Feiya is another powerhouse that combines the ability to make everyone better at beating banes with the some of the best casting ability in the game (Ridiculously high .base tats and the ability to easily recast spells). She also helps cover another of Damiel’s weaknesses, his difficulty in acquiring spells.

Jirelle is omni-competent and always a nice choice, and every party becomes strong with Oloch helping out.


Jirelle is the Pirate Queen. Nuff said (and a Pretty lady I know is thinking of cosplaying her!)


Most of what I said is tongue-in-cheek in my original post, although I have to admit it was slightly annoying that a friend who was only playing for a little fun was doing better than I normally do. I could tell it was just because he was playing Damiel though, as some of his choices were... less than ideal. Damiel's abilities normally pulled him through.

I am REALLY surprised to hear that Oloch is being recommended. He is actually the character I was playing, and I found he took a long time to get into the game (I got no weapon for several turns). The boosts he gave to others were nice, but by no means essential. I could heal, and that was helpful, but it used up explores. Overall, I just felt like, in a game where you are racing the turn-clock, he was very very slow.

I am reconsidering characters to cover Damiel's weaknesses, as was also mentioned earlier. Heggal has that Lini d4 mentioned earlier, and a good Charisma and Wisdom. He is a little low on spells for my tastes, but I can probably get the essentials. The character I have enjoyed the most in all of Pathfinder card game is Class-deck Lem, and I was thinking of trying S&S Lem. His lower hand size and fewer spells is frustrating, but at least he can recharge to d4 himself OR another, which is helpful to the whole team. I wish I had access to RotR Lem, but that isn't an option. I have a thing for bards and clerics (hence my having those class decks), and I think there are some good options to cover Damiel's shortcomings- especially Charisma and Wisdom, and for clerics, strength as well.

Sovereign Court

Of course you have access to RotR Lem. Use a character token card from one of the sets you do have, and print his character sheet. I love Kyra, in fact all the Clerics are awesome in my opinion.


Andrew L Klein wrote:
Of course you have access to RotR Lem. Use a character token card from one of the sets you do have, and print his character sheet. I love Kyra, in fact all the Clerics are awesome in my opinion.

Using this method you can get every character released in PACG.

Sovereign Court

Yup. Card not even needed. Our group didn't have the class decks yet when S&S released, so one of our players just used the Jirelle token for Darago the Wizard while we waited for the deck to arrive.


One note, just to make sure you're not over-playing Damiel. You say he always pulls out a potion to cover his weaknesses, but I generally find it just as likely that he has the wrong potions in his hand. Keep in mind that he cannot use a Tot Flask during an encounter to get whatever potion he needs, since a) it's not directly related to the encounter and b) that would require using 2 items on 1 check. If your friend is doing that, it might be contributing to the feeling of invulnerability.


Lini


He never has the wrong potions in his hand when his only potions are Heroism, Flying, and Healing (and frankly, I'm feeling less like I need the healing these days).

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